To have shouted at MIL for being racist?

[Eurydice84]

MIL has many annoying habits. One of them (which has been going on for a while) is that she mocks Italian accent and gestures (I am Italian). This could be funny from a friend once in a while, but the way she does it - when talking to DD, whom I am raising bilingual, and in a sneaky way - really upsets me. DH told her more than once that I hate it and she should stop.

Anyway yesterday she was doing it a lot. At first I made some subtle comments it should stop, then DH had a word, but it carried on so I lost it and shouted at her. I said it is disrespectful, borderline racist and if she carries on she is not welcome in my house anymore. She then left without having dinner, after DH also said she was out of order.

I feel I was wrong at shouting, but I felt really violated and needed to stand up for myself. I went through all the alternative options first (DH having a word, etc).

Now it's an incredibly awkward situation as she lives quite close and I am dreading having to see this woman again. She looks after DD once a week.... not sure I can cope with it anymore!

If only life were as simple and black and white as you make out @AmaryllisNightAndDay.

Relationships aren't that simplistic. Presumably OP loves her partner and her child. Presumably she loves her family being together. Given they have been so kind and thoughtful towards the mil up until this point in time, her partner loves his mum. He may be more likely to forgive his mum's behaviour because he knows her and understands her. Op herself has said that she wouldn't be bothered if this was a friend of hers but hates it because it's her mother in law because she feels like it is done to wind her up. How does she know this? She is attributing negative motivations to behaviour to one person that she wouldn't attribute to another. Her husband is less likely to attribute the same negative motivations because he knows and loves his mum. People are complicated and stupid and imperfect, they make mistakes and when given the opportunity can and sometimes do learn from them.

For example I can see my own mum doing this. It wouldn't be because she is xenophobic. It would be because she is socially awkward and it would be a misguided attempt to use humour and ribbing to bond. She is also very insecure and would probably be intimidated by someone she regarded as excitingly different. Of course Ops mother in law could just be mean and cruel, none of us know.

Yanbu - it's ignorant and unacceptable.
My mil mildly mocked my DC's accent
and how they pronounced stuff when they were learning to speak (we bring the DC up in a different area of UK to where she is and as a result they have the local accent -often denigrated by others but that's another story) it made me angry because they didn't know any different, they were children and they were her dgc! No child should be mocked though!

I don't think she meant to be mean it was just noticeably different to her other dgc, it still showed her to be ignorant of other people. I said to DH I've noticed her doing this and I don't like it and he said he had too. I think he must have had a word as she stopped.

Your mil.needa to apologise and move on.

@TheFrendo

That is not racist as Italians are not a race.

It is rude, unpleasant, unfunny and insulting to you. But not racist.

It's xenophobic.

However, I believe the legal definition of race in the equality legislation includes nationality under the definition of race.

Literally yes, but it's xenophobic and could reasonably be considered a hate incident if not a hate crime in the eyes of the law.

Unsurprisingly mocking European or other white accents is seen as ok - the Dolmio adverts for example. Can you imaging a mock Indian accent voicing a Pataks commercial?

she sounds a stupid woman who couldnt get the warnings.
btw i like italian, spanish languages and accent.

You did nothing wrong.

You approached it maturely and you should be proud of yourself for standing up to her. She has no boundaries clearly. Perhaps she'll learn from this.

@Soul11Soul

If only life were as simple and black and white as you make out *@AmaryllisNightAndDay*.

Relationships aren't that simplistic. Presumably OP loves her partner and her child. Presumably she loves her family being together. Given they have been so kind and thoughtful towards the mil up until this point in time, her partner loves his mum. He may be more likely to forgive his mum's behaviour because he knows her and understands her. Op herself has said that she wouldn't be bothered if this was a friend of hers but hates it because it's her mother in law because she feels like it is done to wind her up. How does she know this? She is attributing negative motivations to behaviour to one person that she wouldn't attribute to another. Her husband is less likely to attribute the same negative motivations because he knows and loves his mum. People are complicated and stupid and imperfect, they make mistakes and when given the opportunity can and sometimes do learn from them.

For example I can see my own mum doing this. It wouldn't be because she is xenophobic. It would be because she is socially awkward and it would be a misguided attempt to use humour and ribbing to bond. She is also very insecure and would probably be intimidated by someone she regarded as excitingly different. Of course Ops mother in law could just be mean and cruel, none of us know.

Would your mother, like the mil in this case, continue to behave in that way despite having been told by you that it was unacceptable and she should stop? If so, it's not socially awkward, it's rude, nasty and xenophobic. If she would stop and apologise when called out on it, then yes, it could be unacceptable behaviour due to social awkwardness.

I agree that it seems to be OK for some people to make comments regarding your accent and perceived national characteristics even if you are British but not English. I have had this from a nurse in the NHS and often from a relative. I'm an adult and I choose to ignore it but definitely wouldn't if it involved my children.

Good for you and your DH. It is sad she even needed to be told more than once but at least now she is clear.

@Soul11Soul

If only life were as simple and black and white as you make out *@AmaryllisNightAndDay*.

Relationships aren't that simplistic. Presumably OP loves her partner and her child. Presumably she loves her family being together. Given they have been so kind and thoughtful towards the mil up until this point in time, her partner loves his mum. He may be more likely to forgive his mum's behaviour because he knows her and understands her. Op herself has said that she wouldn't be bothered if this was a friend of hers but hates it because it's her mother in law because she feels like it is done to wind her up. How does she know this? She is attributing negative motivations to behaviour to one person that she wouldn't attribute to another. Her husband is less likely to attribute the same negative motivations because he knows and loves his mum. People are complicated and stupid and imperfect, they make mistakes and when given the opportunity can and sometimes do learn from them.

For example I can see my own mum doing this. It wouldn't be because she is xenophobic. It would be because she is socially awkward and it would be a misguided attempt to use humour and ribbing to bond. She is also very insecure and would probably be intimidated by someone she regarded as excitingly different. Of course Ops mother in law could just be mean and cruel, none of us know.

I totally understand what you're saying but I'm not sure it mattere WHY someone does something.

If it's perceived to be offensive, someone's asked you to stop, then you stop. End of. No excuses.

It's not a generational thing. The UK Race Relations Act was passed in 1965, after years of campaigning (it was first introduced as a bill in Parliament in 1956). So the notion that it's utterly wrong to mock/stigmatise/discriminate against anyone on grounds of ethnic origin has been in the general public arena since the time the OP's mother was a child; maybe even before she was born.

I can quite understand why you shouted OP; her behaviour was disgraceful.

I hope it's not intrusive to add: how great that you are raising your daughter to be bilingual. That's such a gift to any child.

DH was trying to convince me that I am too prickly about this and it wasn't malicious.

She could say it wasn't malicious the first time. But once she was told that it upset you and not to do, then it is malicious. She's upsetting you deliberately. What else is that if not malicious?

@OchonAgusOchonOh

She probably would try but would slip up now and again to be honest.

@Trainbear

Literally yes, but it's xenophobic and could reasonably be considered a hate incident if not a hate crime in the eyes of the law.

Unsurprisingly mocking European or other white accents is seen as ok - the Dolmio adverts for example. Can you imaging a mock Indian accent voicing a Pataks commercial?

I'm Italian and I absolutely fucking hate it when people do the dumb accent and hand gesturing mocking. I can take it on the chin occasionally.

But if the dickheads continue, I get pretty angry.

The dolmio adverts are also ridiculous. I try to laugh it off most of the time though. I don't have an Italian accent but a lot of my family do. It's just disrespectful.

OP, BRAVA for standing up for yourself! It's just not on for your MIL to keep on doing it.

I used to have people at work doing it to me and also calling me mozzarella and pizza all the time. Or if I came in the room they would say stuff like ' mamma Mia '... so annoying. And I don't even have an accent, it's just my name and look!

OP ! Well done !!

You were completely in the right.

I can't even imagine how she justifies it to herself. Perhaps she is one of these people who sees different decisions as criticism, because the world obviously revolves around them. So she feels a little inadequate that her DGC can speak two languages and she can't, or feels left out when you talk to DC and she can't join in or understand? The she is deliberately trying to bring you down a peg or two.

Were your subtle comments super subtle, so she just thought that particular joke didn't hit home? She needs to know it feels like a piss take, even if she thinks she is "joining in."

Whatever is driving it, it isn't your problem to fix but trying to think about when she does it might help put a stop to it.

Well done, you were right, and your DH stating that too is big.
Ask nursery if they can have her another day, it’s not yo7 job to negate her loneliness.
We have a friend going through something similar at work, with an accent and people wouldn’t see it as racist as he’s white/it’s just humour but it isn’t.

My dad has a very old white male mentality (not excusing it, just giving the stereotype as it fits) and he has gone on some rants about immigrants moving to the country and being bums, other frankly racist terms which have no commonplace in 2022. As a cherry on top, my mum is an immigrant, so the daughter he was whinging about is a product of an immigrant. But of course it's not the same.

I lost my rag with him. No I can't make him change his views but I can say to him I won't put up with hearing it. If he wants me around, he shuts up about this stuff and we discuss other things.

It's not perfect but I cannot change his way of thinking but he can choose to honour my wish of not hearing about it so we can muddle along.

Your MIL is blatantly not respecting your wish not to hear it in yours, and your families, presence. Ideally she would realise she's being an utter twat and not do it at all, but the minimum is that she should not do it around you as you ultimately cannot police what she does outside your presence as you are not there.

It would annoy me as well. Some people just don't get casual racism/xenophobia and why it's not an innocent little joke. It's not a joke if no one is laughing.

She's been told many, many times, not to do it, and continues to do it - multiple times in one day in the incident that broke the camel's back. That's not 'forgetting'. That's more MIL dearest being 'just the way she is'.

Nope. Her actions, her consequences. She has been asked repeated, nicely, told repeatedly, by both her DIL and her own son, and continues to do it.

Now, in case she's hard of hearing, as well as thinking, so maybe that's why she hasn't got the message, she's had it shouted at her.

I would most certainly not apologise to her, I'd be telling her DH that she's welcome in his house when myself and his bicultural daughter are not there to be insulted since it's also his house, but until she apologises, commits to not doing the same thing again, she won't be welcome while we're there, and alternative arrangements would be made for childcare, regardless.

She's presumably just old. Old is not a get out of jail free card for being rude and anti-social.

Her DS, that is.

Is she being racist or xenophobic? (Just so I’m clear on my head).

Racist - absolutely right
Xenophobia - generally thick people. I’d ask her if she ‘wants some chips with that?’ for everything (even a cup of tea).

It’s like my brother who asks me - every time I see him (which isn’t often) for the past 38 years if I want a nice bacon sandwich. Every single time (I turned veggie when I was a kid). No one has ever found this amusing and yet he continues to do it.

How old is the little one - old enough to teach nonna some Italian?

Good for you OP!! Let's hope the vile behaviour stops now.

I had to do similar with MIL after finding out she had been taking a bag of sweets to school and giving them to all DDs friend except "that black girl". Omg absolutely hit the roof!! As did DH.

She still dishes out the odd comment eg "well I couldn't get a doctors appointment because my face isn't brown!"

She is thoroughly foul. Thankfully I don't have to go along with DH to visit as their house isn't suitable for a wheelchair user. Such a shame!

Horrible behaviour. She's a racist.

To repeat myself, the OP's MIL's behaviour can't be explained away 'because she's old'. It's because she's racist - and because she's spectacularly bad-mannered.

I'm probably as old - or older - than the OP's mother, and, both at home and at school, we were always taught that it was EXTREMELY bad manners to mock anyone for perceived 'differences' of speech or appearance - or anything else - and that anyone who did mock was revealing not only their own ignorance but also their own low standard of behaviour. Pretending that you were joking was absolutely no excuse.

My DH is German and I'd be really pissed off if a family member did that with him and our DS. Especially after having been told multiple times to stop.
You did the right thing. Hopefully mil will apologise and realise what she's done

Your DH should day it upsets HIM too. Saying it upsets you will in her head make it a you problem not a her problem.