To have shouted at MIL for being racist?

[Eurydice84]

MIL has many annoying habits. One of them (which has been going on for a while) is that she mocks Italian accent and gestures (I am Italian). This could be funny from a friend once in a while, but the way she does it - when talking to DD, whom I am raising bilingual, and in a sneaky way - really upsets me. DH told her more than once that I hate it and she should stop.

Anyway yesterday she was doing it a lot. At first I made some subtle comments it should stop, then DH had a word, but it carried on so I lost it and shouted at her. I said it is disrespectful, borderline racist and if she carries on she is not welcome in my house anymore. She then left without having dinner, after DH also said she was out of order.

I feel I was wrong at shouting, but I felt really violated and needed to stand up for myself. I went through all the alternative options first (DH having a word, etc).

Now it's an incredibly awkward situation as she lives quite close and I am dreading having to see this woman again. She looks after DD once a week.... not sure I can cope with it anymore!

By the way, find alternative childcare OP. Heaven knows what she says to DD when you’re not there. She might spend the entire day taking the piss out of her for all you know.

I wouldn't be quite as up in arms about doing the voice per se, I think it might be a generational thing as this used to be commonplace (see Manuel in Fawlty Towers etc).

However given that it's 2020 not 1980 and you have spelled out to her multiple times that it's rude and unwelcome, YANBU. Maybe having lost your rag at her will make her finally take notice.

@Soul11Soul

You need to get back on an even keel with her for the sake of your husband and your child or life might get very very tricky for you all. How do you want the future to look in terms of your relationship with her? How does that differ from how your husband's sees the relationship going? It is the difference in these two views that are going to cause issues.

In your shoes I would be tempted to apologise for shouting BUT I would be very clear about your boundaries. She is not to mock your accent or gestures again because you find it hurtful and inappropriate. You also can not imagine that she would deliberate hurt her grandchild, but by mocking her mother that is exactly what she is doing and you can't allow that to happen.

Apologise for what? Standing up to a racist bully?

Many people would have thrown her out the house, never mind raised their voice. And why would you want an 'even keel' with someone who disrespects your ethnicity ? An ethnicity that is shared by your daughter in their care for fucks sake?

@BlondeDogLady

At first I made some subtle comments it should stop, then DH had a word, but it carried on so I lost it and shouted at her. I said it is disrespectful, borderline racist and if she carries on she is not welcome in my house anymore

You've taken it way too far, imo. Some things can't be unsaid and you were pretty brutal.

I love an Italian accent. So do most people - it's seen as one of the sexiest accents on the planet.

Your MIL is lonely. And now she will be even more lonely, and upset to boot. I wouldn't be happy with myself if I had done this.

Wtf?

Firstly, she has been told again and again that she is being offensive. Even if it were just an irritating behaviour without xenophobic undertones, you can only push people so far before you get snapped at.

Secondly, we'll done for reinforcing the 'othering' of OP by calling her voice inherently sexy. Her accent is part of her, not something exotic to be fetishised.

Lastly, just because someone is lonely, doesn't mean we should put up with their bullshit. Possibly MIL is lonely because she has alienated lots of people by being so annoying.

This is what's known as consequences.

She could have not made fun of you.
She could have stopped when you raised it.
She could have stopped when your husband told her to.
🤷‍♀️
This is what happens when you think you have the right to ignore people when they tell you your actions upset them.

You need to get back on an even keel with her for the sake of your husband and your child or life might get very very tricky for you all

As the child of a mixed nationality marriage, I can vouch that I t’s really crap when your relations on one side denigrate one parent solely because of their nationality. It took me many years before I spoke out to my grandparent about this. It made me feel shit, becuse I adored my parent and because his nationality was part of me. Denigrating his nationality meant denigratingme too.

So for your daughters sake, don’t let this woman back into her life until she can be trusted to keep her nasty, racist feelings to herself.

Honestly, she can fuck off.

Why would she mock you, continuously, knowing you don’t like it? And to mock you when you’re speaking to your daughter, who she should be encouraging because it’s great for a child to be bilingual.

If she feels sad, good! She should think about her actions and only come back when she can behave herself.

Play shitty games, win shitty prizes.

YANBU.

How many times to you have to tell someone to stop mocking you before you put your foot down? YANBU

Yes. That should surely read "she needs to get back on an even keel with you for the sake of her son and grandchild or life might get very very tricky for you all"

I think it might be a generational thing as this used to be commonplace (see Manuel in Fawlty Towers etc)

It really isn’t.
Times have moved on and we have grown and learnt. Seatbelts weren’t obligatory back then - now we put them on automatically

I'm guessing none of us have met your MIL, so we can't say for certain that she's a racist bully who needs to fuck off, but her comments whilst acceptable possibly once in a while from a friend, are grating when coming from her, despite subtle requests to desist. The main point is that you feel bad for how you dealt with the situation, sounds like that's not your modus operandi. You might feel better if you say you were sorry for shouting, whilst emphasising that what you shouted at her needed to be said, and hope sincerely she'll take it on board and you can both move on. It's likely she doesn't realise she's being racist and you need to help her understand.

You need to get back on an even keel with her for the sake of your husband and your child or life might get very very tricky for you all

Nope. Life gets very very tricky when parents don't maintain good boundaries for themselves and their children. Not allowing a family member to take the piss our of your child's mother and half her heritage is a very wise boundary to maintain. If the OP's husband can't see that then the OP has a DH problem. Pretending there is no problem and pandering to his mother's racism is only going to make the OP's life and her child's life a whole lot trickier in the long run.

@GrendelsGrandma

I wouldn't be quite as up in arms about doing the voice per se, I think it might be a generational thing as this used to be commonplace (see Manuel in Fawlty Towers etc).

However given that it's 2020 not 1980 and you have spelled out to her multiple times that it's rude and unwelcome, YANBU. Maybe having lost your rag at her will make her finally take notice.

No way. I have an Italian uncle by marriage and nobody in the family, including my nearly 80-something parents, would do this.

It's really hard to raise a bilingual child and to keep their second language up once they start school and realise that it makes them different. MIL is actively undermining this.

MIL feels lonely sometimes

That’s not surprising, as she doesn’t sound like a pleasant person who has lots of friends.

YANBU.

Having said that, if she comes to you to apologise for jeering at your accent I would apologise to her for shouting. You can maintain boundaries and still be gracious.

You haven't done anything wrong. You were pushed beyond your limits. If your MIL apologises, you could be diplomatic and apologise for shouting at her I suppose, but otherwise I'd let things ride. It's up to her to treat you with respect if she wants to have a relationship with you. Why ever would she think she doesn't need to?

Ball is in her court to apologise, at which point I would apologise for losing it.

@GrendelsGrandma

I wouldn't be quite as up in arms about doing the voice per se, I think it might be a generational thing as this used to be commonplace (see Manuel in Fawlty Towers etc).

However given that it's 2020 not 1980 and you have spelled out to her multiple times that it's rude and unwelcome, YANBU. Maybe having lost your rag at her will make her finally take notice.

A generation thing?

Come on. I still have afrench accent when I speak despite being there for 20 years. Neither of my PIL have EVER made fun from my accent.
It's not a generation problem. It's a xenophobic/racist issue.

"DH was trying to convince me that I am too prickly about this and it wasn't malicious."

Unsupportive git.

If it wasn't malicious, wtf was it?

OK so shouting isn't great but sometimes there is no other way to get your point across.

She sounds tone deaf. Her grandchild is half-Italian but she's mocking your heritage?

Find someone else for the childcare one day a week. She sounds poisonous. And I'm really glad you stood up to her and that your DH did too.

You've done nothing wrong. This is all on her.

I feel I was wrong at shouting, but I felt really violated and needed to stand up for myself. I went through all the alternative options first (DH having a word, etc).

Hey - stop beating yourself up.

Losing your cool ONCE is hardly equivalent to being persistently mocked over several years.

Most of us do similar - we bottle up frustration, resentment & rage because we don't know how to express it or fear confrontation or the inevitable backlash from the person who's been needling us. Then it boils over ...

It happens because many of us lack assertiveness skills, so yo-yo between putting up with crap & the occasional volcanic eruption.
Start fixing that with this lovely book - www.amazon.co.uk/Woman-Your-Own-Right-Assertiveness/dp/0704334208?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

She then left without having dinner, after DH also said she was out of order.
Sorry Eurydice, this made me laugh because I hoped so hard she stomped home hungry & sat herself on her own naughty step.

She had it coming, so forgive yourself & move on.
You tried very hard to advise, warn, explain, & even get her own son to have a word & she rode rough-shod over all of it.
You know it's not about your accent or anything, don't you?
It's about power.
MiL continuing to take the piss despite your obvious discomfort & requests to stop it was a dominance display.

As to the 'moving on' bit - don't expect this incident to have 'cured' the problem.
Because the problem isn't her racism & piss-taking.
The problem is her view of herself as your superior, & her acting out power-plays to ensure you feel it.
So be prepared for quite a lot of:

• passive aggressive sniping worded to cause you grief without quite being 'challengeable'
• wounded martyr act
• fake illness act / "oh my nerves" act
• direct blame eg Eurydice has Hurt My Feelings She Must Apologise
• more power play, eg sneaky manipulations like letting you down last minute on the childcare day

You can handle it - more tools for your kit in links below.
And I would look into alternative childcare arrangements - not urgently, not dramatically, but to give yourself a back-up plan, & to ensure that you know you have it covered.
You don't want to be dependent on this woman's goodwill.
That way, you can't be emotionally blackmailed into putting up with any of the above by way of her guilting you about childcare, or threatening to withdraw it if (I can imagine her saying this, so am sure you can) "Eurydice can't behave herself."

Well done for losing your rag btw.
This was a boil that needed lancing :) xx

www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/

www.e-counseling.com/mental-health/what-is-the-grey-rock-method/#:~:text=%20How%20Do%20I%20Use%20the%20Grey%20Rock,rock%20method.%20The%20goal%20of%20grey...%20More%20

outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/jade-dont-justify-argue-defend-explain

Good on you OP! I'm also raising a bilingual child and I would be pissed off if my in-laws made fun of my language and heritage. Kids will pick up on these things and they may feel embarrassed or "different" because people take the mick out of their heritage, so it's good to nip it in the bud. I never make my DC's dual heritage a big deal, but if someone was mocking something that was essentially a part of him I would have to have a word too.

Also your MIL is racist so I wouldn't want people like her in my house either.

[quote ChargingBuck]I feel I was wrong at shouting, but I felt really violated and needed to stand up for myself. I went through all the alternative options first (DH having a word, etc).

Hey - stop beating yourself up.

Losing your cool ONCE is hardly equivalent to being persistently mocked over several years.

Most of us do similar - we bottle up frustration, resentment & rage because we don't know how to express it or fear confrontation or the inevitable backlash from the person who's been needling us. Then it boils over ...

It happens because many of us lack assertiveness skills, so yo-yo between putting up with crap & the occasional volcanic eruption.
Start fixing that with this lovely book - ]]

She then left without having dinner, after DH also said she was out of order.
Sorry Eurydice, this made me laugh because I hoped so hard she stomped home hungry & sat herself on her own naughty step.

She had it coming, so forgive yourself & move on.
You tried very hard to advise, warn, explain, & even get her own son to have a word & she rode rough-shod over all of it.
You know it's not about your accent or anything, don't you?
It's about power.
MiL continuing to take the piss despite your obvious discomfort & requests to stop it was a dominance display.

As to the 'moving on' bit - don't expect this incident to have 'cured' the problem.
Because the problem isn't her racism & piss-taking.
The problem is her view of herself as your superior, & her acting out power-plays to ensure you feel it.
So be prepared for quite a lot of:

• passive aggressive sniping worded to cause you grief without quite being 'challengeable'
• wounded martyr act
• fake illness act / "oh my nerves" act
• direct blame eg Eurydice has Hurt My Feelings She Must Apologise
• more power play, eg sneaky manipulations like letting you down last minute on the childcare day

You can handle it - more tools for your kit in links below.
And I would look into alternative childcare arrangements - not urgently, not dramatically, but to give yourself a back-up plan, & to ensure that you know you have it covered.
You don't want to be dependent on this woman's goodwill.
That way, you can't be emotionally blackmailed into putting up with any of the above by way of her guilting you about childcare, or threatening to withdraw it if (I can imagine her saying this, so am sure you can) "Eurydice can't behave herself."

Well done for losing your rag btw.
This was a boil that needed lancing :) xx

www.banyantherapy.com/darvo/

www.e-counseling.com/mental-health/what-is-the-grey-rock-method/#:~:text=%20How%20Do%20I%20Use%20the%20Grey%20Rock,rock%20method.%20The%20goal%20of%20grey...%20More%20

outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/jade-dont-justify-argue-defend-explain[/quote]
Thank you so much @ChargingBuck, such useful resources! I will make sure to read/go through them.

That is not racist as Italians are not a race.

It is rude, unpleasant, unfunny and insulting to you. But not racist.