Do you think Spotify should continue to host Joe Rogan's podcast?

[lonelyapple]

Quite a few singers (Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Nils Lofgren to name a few) have said they want to have their music removed from Spotify as a protest against Spotify hosting Joe Rogan's podcast (they think he is spreading covid vaccine misinformation), so Spotify will have to choose between hosting their music or Joe Rogan's podcast.

I personally think this is ridiculous as Joe Rogan talks to a range of people about a range of different subjects and his podcasts are interesting and popular and people can always choose not to listen to them and even if they do, it doesn't mean they believe everything being said. I don't think Spotify should cave to such threats and I think this would set a dangerous precedent.

www.ft.com/content/a9fdaf0d-8d46-4a16-881f-a1b0635d3ce3

YANBU - Spotify should keep Joe Rogan's podcast.
YABU - Spotify should not keep Joe Rogan's podcast.

[quote Pumperthepumper]@SuperWoofing you’re looking a bit desperate for a fight here. I could just as easily say ‘you’re saying anyone can do absolutely anything and still keep their job, better hope some mad racist misogynist doesn’t come for you!’

Spotify don’t have to host anyone they don’t want to. Neither does mumsnet - this post would be deleted if I broke their talk guidelines. That’s because private companies can choose who they host.[/quote]
Ok, and they have decided to host Joe Rogan and not host Neil Young. I imagine you think you're making some kind of insightful arguments but you actually aren't. I have to go to bed so I will leave you to your pointless ramblings about people being racist in Tesco

@Lilifer

Back in Sept 2020, the chief of the CDC and Trump has a public disagreement about the vaccine rollout.

The CDC said they were hopeful it would be ready in November or December, but there would only be a limited number available to start (so the most vulnerable would be prioritized).

Trump, disagreeing with the CDC, said it would be ready in mid October and 100 million doses would be distributed to Americans by the end of the year. He said the chief of the CDC was mistaken.

In light of the disagreement between Trump and his own government’s scientists, Trump’s opponents said they would not trust Trump’s word alone on the safety and efficacy of the vaccines; they would take any unless they were approved by the CDC or other, qualified experts.

FWIW, the vaccine rollout did no start until December. About 5m doses were given by the end of the year (about a 20th of the amount Trump claimed).

*I define censorship as a world-wide blanket ban on opinion. Interestingly, Joe Rogan’s interview is still on Apple Podcasts and YouTube.
*
I haven't watched rogan's stuff so can't comment much but:

•'Worldwide' is a high threshold for censorship
•right now, his stuff is still available. But if all of them got rid of him, and he had no platform to be accessed, I'd say that is censorship even though they all are private tech companies. It's not the same as hate speech, actual misinformation etc. People think any criticism or anecdote towards the COVID vaccine is a conspiracy, which is a bit far.

@Pumperthepumper

I think it's quite disturbing that there's a mass campaign to get someone to lose his job based on a series of rumours rather than anything he's actually said, yes. Would you be ok with that?

That’s not what’s happening though - the interview is still on Apple Podcasts and YouTube. What’s happening is a private company deciding they can’t be arsed with the grief, as is their right. He can make his own hosting site with his own audience. It’ll just cost him a lot of money.

I think Neil Young might be a bit long in the tooth to set about creating his own hosting site regardless of the cost. Joe Rogan can crack on with his podcast though, which a private company is clearly happy to go on hosting.

Isn't the main winner from this whole thing Joe Rogan?

He has been getting free advertising for weeks. I know many here would refuse to listen, but I think even more would be curious as to the content, and then become fans when the realised what he is saying isn't as black and white, as the media are making it out to be.

@heronsinflight

There is a back story here. Many musicians were already deeply unhappy about the absolute pittance that Spotify pays in royalties. They then diverted $100m from their inadequate royalty budget to sign Joe Rogan to an exclusive deal. That was widely seen as a massive kick in the teeth and a lot of musicians remain very bitter about it.

Exactly.

Because Spotify isn’t a music-platform.
It’s a money-making-platform.

They’re always gonna do what’s best for their bank account. Joe Rogan is better right now.

* I will note that over 120 scientists & doctors wrote to Spotify & complained about the dangerous misinformation on Rogan’s show - that it alarmed them. Evidently, it alarmed others too. I don’t listen to Rogan, so I’ve no idea what he says, except that he pushes unfounded Covid cures like hydroxychloroquine, etc. Many, many people consider him an “expert,” although he’s a pundit, and a provocateur - nothing more.

[quote Buwch]@Lilifer

Back in Sept 2020, the chief of the CDC and Trump has a public disagreement about the vaccine rollout.

The CDC said they were hopeful it would be ready in November or December, but there would only be a limited number available to start (so the most vulnerable would be prioritized).

Trump, disagreeing with the CDC, said it would be ready in mid October and 100 million doses would be distributed to Americans by the end of the year. He said the chief of the CDC was mistaken.

In light of the disagreement between Trump and his own government’s scientists, Trump’s opponents said they would not trust Trump’s word alone on the safety and efficacy of the vaccines; they would take any unless they were approved by the CDC or other, qualified experts.

FWIW, the vaccine rollout did no start until December. About 5m doses were given by the end of the year (about a 20th of the amount Trump claimed).[/quote]
I see, thanks for that it makes more sense now in that context 👍🏻

There are no free speech issues raised by the reality that commercial enterprise can offer one a platform or not as they see fit. Joe Rogan is no more entitled to a platform than I am.

There is also no such thing as ‘cancel culture’, it’s simply that some people who previously spoke without thought and without consequence now experience reality like the rest of us.

Of greater concern to me than people peddling nonsense about the vaccine is what has happened to the education system that generations who have enjoyed compulsory education far beyond of that of previous generations remain so ignorant and lacking in ability to reason.

Do people see Trump being booted off Twitter as censorship? Or Katie Hopkins column being stopped?

Because I don't remember people on here being this up in arms about those things that actually happened...

Personally I define freedom as being able to say/do whatever you like up to the point where it begins to inhibit another person's freedom to go about their lawful business.

So Joe Rogan's podcast (or any anti vax opinion) doesn't inhibit anyone else from going ahead and getting vaccinated. You might argue that in not vaccinating, those people put others at risk but as a society we only are obliged to have vaccinations of there's a direct benefit to the individuals having it - that it protects society via herd immunisation is a nice side effect but not the main reason.

Of course other artists also have the freedom to remove their content from Spotify. The market will decide whose work is most valued by the consumer and Spotify will likely respond accordingly.

If the consequence of free speech is that you lose your livelihood, then you effectively don't have free speech. I think it's essential to protect that freedom because who wants to live in a country where only sanctioned opinions are allowed?

I think the issue isn’t that Spotify is hosting the podcast, it’s that they are paying Rogan to make the podcast/for exclusive access. For me, there’s a big difference in allowing all the different voices to be heard on Spotify (definitely a freedom of speech issue) to actively supporting certain voices. Spotify are essentially publishers of vaccine misinformation by paying Rogan.

Trump supporters are all over the idea that DT has been unfairly censored, and even his critics have said it's a difficult call. DT repeatedly violated Twitter policies for years but the crunch point was when he encouraged overthrow of the US government & violating the US Constitution. Not just encouraging overthrow, but violent overthrow.

Hopkins has defenders, too. I don't follow the KH situation so much but I think she's made a lot of downright hateful statements -- hatemongering is against most platform policies.

If the consequence of free speech is that you lose your livelihood, then you effectively don't have free speech

Do you think so? So you think businesses should be forced to keep paying someone that is bringing their business into disrepute in the name of free speech? Which may well lead to the business going under and everyone losing their livelihood?

@lljkk

Trump supporters are all over the idea that DT has been unfairly censored, and even his critics have said it's a difficult call. DT repeatedly violated Twitter policies for years but the crunch point was when he encouraged overthrow of the US government & violating the US Constitution. Not just encouraging overthrow, but violent overthrow.

Hopkins has defenders, too. I don't follow the KH situation so much but I think she's made a lot of downright hateful statements -- hatemongering is against most platform policies.

Obviously they both have people in support of them.

But here, on Mumsnet, I don't remember anyone getting this het up about censorship on either of those occasions. You know, when people actually did lose their 'platform'.

@Crikeyalmighty

"I work in music. I don’t think it’s a deal Spotify should have done . I certainly think given the health situation that anyone spouting anti vax shouldn’t be Given the money and airtime to do "

+++++

Could you elaborate further and explain who said exactly what - that is ant I vaxx and why this means that someone should therefore have their contact with Spotify pulled.

Or are you simply dismissing it as "spouting anti vaxx" on a podcast you have never listened to - simply because someone somewhere told you he was ant vaxx.

This thought process is truly scary and can you see how it is frighteningly like the medieval witch hunts or trials or the Stalinist purges or the Maoist cultural revolution.

It’s cancel culture gone mad. Free speech is very important. There are plenty of very dubious lyrics in many songs. Are they all to be banned too? Michael Jacksons music is on Spotify despite him having been a paedophile . That’s much worse in my opinion.

@UnicornsReal

It’s cancel culture gone mad. Free speech is very important. There are plenty of very dubious lyrics in many songs. Are they all to be banned too? Michael Jacksons music is on Spotify despite him having been a paedophile . That’s much worse in my opinion.

What was cancelled?

The whole point of this thread is that Joe Rogan’s
views are being cancelled. He’s being forced off Spotify. What did you think this thread was about?

@FluffyBooBoo

Do people see Trump being booted off Twitter as censorship? Or Katie Hopkins column being stopped?

Because I don't remember people on here being this up in arms about those things that actually happened...

Yes I do. But MN is very much a hive mind when it comes to conservative views and politics so it's not surprising that no one had much to say about it on this platform.

@UnicornsReal

The whole point of this thread is that Joe Rogan’s views are being cancelled. He’s being forced off Spotify. What did you think this thread was about?

His views aren't being cancelled. Neil Young have Spotify a choice, and they choose JR. Neil Young's music has been taken down (which was his choice).

Yes I do. But MN is very much a hive mind when it comes to conservative views and politics so it's not surprising that no one had much to say about it on this platform

I find it interesting that a newspaper sacking a columnist is considered censorship. No paper owes any individual a platform for their views.

Fluffy Spotify aren't being forced to pay JR - it's financially beneficial for them which is why they do it.

I don't believe employers should have any right to ask employees not to express their personal opinions on the employees own social media. Or to ask employees to publicly endorse views which run counter to the employees own opinion, so long as the employees aren't refusing to do their job. Employers should imo have a right to not allow employees to use work facilities to promote their views though.
Too many people are forced out of their work by having opinions which run counter to the 'mainstream' (which might not actually be mainstream, just very loud) and this has to stop (thinking of those who publicly support Rowling).

I agree @Aderyn21

Fluffy Spotify aren't being forced to pay JR - it's financially beneficial for them which is why they do it

I don't know where I suggested that they were.

why not