To be reluctant to be a Godparent to a child about to be adopted

[LoveMyPiano]

I have previously posted about the situation with my neighbour/friend (younger than my own daughter), who - after a lengthy process - is about to lose her daughter, after the baby has spent nearly 7 months in Foster Care (starting after her birth). Earlier this month, a Final Order was made by the Court and she will be placed with an adoptive family, in the next month or so I think.

A concession (amongst others that have been made) is that she can be Christened (not sure how that will work wrt to her name after adoption), and, at the last minute (...) I have been asked to be Godmother.

In view of the adoption proceess, I am not really sure of how my being Gp would work, or have any relevance whatsoever in her future life. I AM prepared to do it for my "friend", as I feel so very very sad for her, and she does need all the support she can get.

But I am not sure of the wisom of it, and how that is affeced also by her being Roman Catholic (and I am pretty much agnostic, Methodiist at a push and Buddhist by preference.... not that ANY of that will come into it); I would hate to just pay lip service to it - but really do wish that I had not been asked.

(My daughter's Godparents have been 100% hands off, I am sorry to say.)

I would welcome any thoughts, suggestions, opinions....
(Oh yes, it so last minute that the Christening [Baptism?] is on Sunday...) Help?

Any more hypocritical than atheists and agnostics getting married in church? Or the guests who attend? Or the bridesmaids? It's what happens in a culturally Christian, but largely secular society.

Well yes, because it’s the only sacrament where you literally have to declare your belief in the Holy Catholic Church.

I got married in a Catholic Church and my daughter was Christened CofE. My overriding experience of both was that love between humans is what matters most. The baby is what matters most.

My overriding experience of both was that love between humans is what matters most.

I’m glad you had that experience, but I don’t think it’s representative of the Catholic establishment.

"As a Catholic, my understanding of the Godparent role is to do your best to protect the soul of the child on behalf of the parent.
Given the circumstances, to me, that would mean for the duration that the child is with their parent.
It would be a beautiful gift that may give the mother some degree of closure that under her 'care' everything that she was able to do for her child was done."

I don't want to offend anyone with strong religious beliefs and I think will try to crtysallise it down the last paragraph above and, as much as is possible, leave the religion out of it - but be "God"mother in name only (if that isn't blasphemous).

I’m atheist but I would do it. You will not have any part to play in this child’s life going forwards so your religion is irrelevant. Do it for your friend. I should imagine it will be a very sad day.

The issue really arises if the adoptive family is catholic as they won’t be able to baptize the baby again and will need to have/use the original baptismal record for things like school, confirmation, marriage and if they want to teach in a catholic school.
It doesn’t feel like a loving act for the mother it feels like a fuck you to the people who will be raising her child and a way of exerting control.

@Peoniesandpeaches

The issue really arises if the adoptive family is catholic as they won’t be able to baptize the baby again and will need to have/use the original baptismal record for things like school, confirmation, marriage and if they want to teach in a catholic school. It doesn’t feel like a loving act for the mother it feels like a fuck you to the people who will be raising her child and a way of exerting control.

Why does the fact they’ll have to use the original baptism record matter? If they are even catholic surely they be happy the baby was baptised?

I'd do it. It's probably the last thing that the mother will be able to do for their child so I'd put my beliefs to one side on the matter. It won't affect your life after the child is adopted but will help the mother.

I'm an atheist and was never christened as a child. I was asked to be godmother to one of my nephews and I agreed.
It meant that I had to be christened on the same day as them. The vicar was aware of the situation and perfectly fine with it too.
It wasn't about me, it was about them, and I was happy to go along with whatever they wanted.

Was I a hypocrite? Maybe but I'm fine with that, my sibling and partner are fine with it, the vicar was fine with it, so .

@2holibobssofar

If she’s catholic, the god parent would be required to be catholic, as you are assuming the role of ensuring and supporting her spiritual education. Also, usually, taking her in should her parents die. Which you won’t be able to do if she’s being adopted, so maybe the priest is letting this slide if he knows she’s being adopted.

Irish Catholic here, none of this is done in reality so don't worry about this, imo you should do it for your friend

@Peoniesandpeaches

The issue really arises if the adoptive family is catholic as they won’t be able to baptize the baby again and will need to have/use the original baptismal record for things like school, confirmation, marriage and if they want to teach in a catholic school. It doesn’t feel like a loving act for the mother it feels like a fuck you to the people who will be raising her child and a way of exerting control.

Really? - That's interesting - and concerning.

You see, I have that feeling deep down. - she is not clever enough to use it as a future "fuck you", as she will unlikely know the implications that you state. But the Control - yes, both of what happens before she loses her, of the people (including me ) whose presence she will expect/request; and of this significant occasion that will be the only one she - wrongly or rightly - CAN control.

And this - religion aside - is why I am conflicted. It is an ordeal that she is going through, certainly - but I am not too keen to enable her in general; this is an exception I guess, but is just another can of worms that i am trying in good conscience to deal with.

Not everyone wants to share with strangers that they were adopted and yet this child will be continually outed throughout their life whenever they want to take a catholic sacrament. Typically also your godparent would be involved in your confirmation but obviously in this case it won’t be able to happen so it others the child again.

I'd probably be inclined to go along with it, as a gesture of solidarity towards the mother much more than anything else. i don't see it as being very likely to do any harm.

Also, as I have said, I am not even sure that I was christened (unlikely.... although there was a hoohah about my name) and have no-one to ask. Is there a record I can check?

How tragic that a mother and baby unit was declined 😞 that could have made such a huge difference

@LoveMyPiano I appreciate you trying to put it kindly but 'leaving religion out of it' is really impossible and actually, rude.
Baptising is the single most significant thing for many religion, whether you agree with it or not. I'm not from a religion that's in the business of baptising babies, but regardless of my view of this, I find it really rude that someone would treat an act of massive significance in a religion, as a favour. It's a sacred thing and it seems to be treated as a favour to make someone feel better. There are lots of ways you can help someone in this situation. One of those can also be saying no. I do not envy you, it sounds like an awful situation for all, but my goodness please don't agree to this if your view of it is really as you describe.

@Peoniesandpeaches

Not everyone wants to share with strangers that they were adopted and yet this child will be continually outed throughout their life whenever they want to take a catholic sacrament. Typically also your godparent would be involved in your confirmation but obviously in this case it won’t be able to happen so it others the child again.

They are going to have to share they are adopted anyway. Their teachers will know, GP etc. It’s not something that can be avoided sadly, regardless of baptism.

We don’t even know If this child will be raised catholic. I would say it’s probably more likely they won’t be and even more unlikely they are raised in a family that follows the catholic faith closely enough to worry about catholic schooling etc.

It may well be about control. I doubt it’s about controlling the future issues you mention ( as you seem to have a very negative view of her intentions) but more about her being able to do the 1 thing she is able to for her child. She won’t be at her first day of school or other important events like that. I can’t blame her for wanting to hold on to one special event with her baby before she is adopted ….potentially she will never see her again.

I can’t see why an adoptive parent would mind. Surely they recognise that even if it’s the right decision for a child adoption is a huge loss to the birth family (and to some extent the child).

[quote Meadowbreeze]@LoveMyPiano I appreciate you trying to put it kindly but 'leaving religion out of it' is really impossible and actually, rude.
Baptising is the single most significant thing for many religion, whether you agree with it or not. I'm not from a religion that's in the business of baptising babies, but regardless of my view of this, I find it really rude that someone would treat an act of massive significance in a religion, as a favour. It's a sacred thing and it seems to be treated as a favour to make someone feel better. There are lots of ways you can help someone in this situation. One of those can also be saying no. I do not envy you, it sounds like an awful situation for all, but my goodness please don't agree to this if your view of it is really as you describe.[/quote]
I'm "leaving the religion out of it"/making it less of a priority (for me that is) so that I CAN - if allowed - support her. Believe me, this is NOT about the Catholicism and is more about control now and for the baby/child in future.
(Aside: If she is Baptised Catholic, then are her adoptive parents obliged to follow that faith for/with her? My friend was brought into the Catholic Church by the people who adopted her..... so I am confused about who can/must do what....)

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the Baptism(Catholic or otherwise) per se - and I do NOT want to offend anyone, but I suppose it's bound to happen..... You should have seen me around the LDS branch of my "family" (although I was much younger - Can not do the right thing around them

@SevenAndEightt

How tragic that a mother and baby unit was declined 😞 that could have made such a huge difference

It is a shame - she needs support herself anyway (but refuses it), and even more so when baby came along. This has all taken so long that, in the end, it has been very cruel.

@rainyskylight

I think in the situation the baby needs as much love and support as possible. It is unlikely that you will be able to continue the support. But in the immediate moment it matters and will give so much.

The religious argument is an important one in the ordinary run of things. But this is a crisis moment. If you are able to give your love and support then that is a good thing. If that baby grows up and learns that there were people that wished it well and wanted everything to be ok, then that is a good thing.

This

We adopted our son at 4.5 - he had not been christened.

We didn't have him christened for a little while - too many things to get used to - life to live etc

It was something DH and I thought about (we are both baptised but DH less attached to religion as he has grown up) - in the end discussion with my son after a school event when he was 7 about christenings led us to arrange his.

As an adopted Mum I would have welcomed and honoured any christening that happened before he was our son and kept the records to share with him - the knowledge that this event had happened and the detail would have been so important to him

And original names are kept - we added a middle name on adoption for our son

Good luck with whatever you choose to do - if you do from my experience it would be really appreciated to have a few photos to hand over of the event - we cherish some baby photos DS has - at primary he felt so included that he had photos from babyhood upwards marking particular occasions (he had been in care pretty much all his life)

Oh, this is lovely @BeaLola - and how nice for your little man. It is nice to hear a perspective from an adoptive mum - thank you

It is such an emotional minefield to traverse, and after so long in Care, he will have started to form his personality in a way that needs the gentle understanding and support you have undoubtedly provided for him.

I think as you really don't know what Catholic baptism means, you should not be standing as godparent anyway, but this is not about what her birth mother wants, it is about what is best for the child.

I could be completely wrong but you seem to have your own caveats about the birth mother and the whole baptism seems to be about control on her part as it is not (from your own account) based on religious faith. Maybe this is understandable, it probably is. Again though, is it best for a child who is going to be brought up as part of another family, about which nothing is known?

This is not the 1960s and there are going to be very significant reasons why this baby has been freed for adoption (you know this, and probably why) Generally I would be in favour of anything that is not harmful that gives comfort, but this situation sits ill with me.

@CPL593H

I think as you really don't know what Catholic baptism means, you should not be standing as godparent anyway, but this is not about what her birth mother wants, it is about what is best for the child.

I could be completely wrong but you seem to have your own caveats about the birth mother and the whole baptism seems to be about control on her part as it is not (from your own account) based on religious faith. Maybe this is understandable, it probably is. Again though, is it best for a child who is going to be brought up as part of another family, about which nothing is known?

This is not the 1960s and there are going to be very significant reasons why this baby has been freed for adoption (you know this, and probably why) Generally I would be in favour of anything that is not harmful that gives comfort, but this situation sits ill with me.

I agree with you. And have never needed to know about Catholicism until now, please forgive my ignorance. (Similarly, I have no idea what the LDS do for baptism, even though I am "close" to some. But my cousins have never asked me to be a "Godparent", or involved involved - coffee-drinking blasphemer that I am.) I am happy to be educated, inasmuch as it might help me figure out what to do, withouut being too dramatic.

I do have some concerns, and I know absolutely why the adoption has come about. I personally would not have a child due for adoption bapitsed into a faith I was not sure they could follow- and , regardless of whether it was my own or not - particularly not one that seems to be all-encompassing (again, forgive my ignorance).

This is not something that would be accepted by friend, as she is wanting to imprint something onto this baby, and SS have sanctioned it. I don't agree with it - but I don't agree with all of the whole sad sate of affairs..... That, however, is my problem and my private struggle to deal with.

It does feel hypocritical in a way I had not fully considered before the enlightening I have gained from the replies I have had.

Havent RTFT, but you won't be allowed if you aren't a confirmed Catholic.

My kids are adopted. As much as I despise the choices birth parents made, they still grieved for their child. Neither set of birth parents put up any sort of fight for my kids and as much as I am pleased the court case was plain sailing, part of me wishes they had fought a bit harder so that I could tell my kids that despite not being able to look after them safely their birth parents did fight for them.

Sad to say, some people have to fight their whole lives, and sometimes reach a point where all the fight has been knocked out of them.

[quote Meadowbreeze]@LoveMyPiano I appreciate you trying to put it kindly but 'leaving religion out of it' is really impossible and actually, rude.
Baptising is the single most significant thing for many religion, whether you agree with it or not. I'm not from a religion that's in the business of baptising babies, but regardless of my view of this, I find it really rude that someone would treat an act of massive significance in a religion, as a favour. It's a sacred thing and it seems to be treated as a favour to make someone feel better. There are lots of ways you can help someone in this situation. One of those can also be saying no. I do not envy you, it sounds like an awful situation for all, but my goodness please don't agree to this if your view of it is really as you describe.[/quote]
Baptism is a precaution in case a member of the Church is unable to actively, independently choose the faith for themself when they are of a suitable age - we used to Confirm the choice at 10, now it's usually 16 or later.

Love and compassion for our neighbours (irrespective of their creed, agnosticism or atheism) is the ONLY visible expression expected of us.

I have seen some VERY unChristian demands around the process published as Catholic guidance, but as a fully paid up member of the Catholic church myself, I'd support the OP in doing whatever they feel is the best for all concerned.