Pregnant 'person' emoji, for gender inclusivity.

[Indigofig]

www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10451689/Apple-adopts-latest-emoji-including-pregnant-MAN.html

I know it is DM, but this has really angered the feminist in me. AIBU to feel like this? Or is it justified?

They should just put a hat on a pregnant emoji and then they'd just need one. It's only because they've gone and given them all different hair that it's an issue.

🙄. Ridiculous.

@ThanksIGotItInMorrisons

so many women on here being offended on behalf of trans men. ‘ it’s not for you, why is it bothering you, just don’t use it, it’s for trans men who have the right to have babies ‘ bla bla bla. It’s bullshit. Women get pregnant and have babies. End of. You cannot be a man and a woman. If you’re pregnant and having a baby your a woman. Only women get pregnant. A fat bellied man emoji is just that. I’ll keep on saying it. Women are the only sex biologically and scientifically and factually able to have babies. Doesn’t matter what gender you claim to be or prefer to be, it is a fact that women have babies. So you can fuck right off with all your sanctimonious crap about trans men and cis women , and pregnant people and chest feeding parents and all that crap. We are women. We breast feed. Stop trying to write us off and wipe us out. It’s not happening.

So wish there was a like button on mumsnet

Yeah yeah it's harmless on its own.

But today I read that, in California, a trans identified male sexually assaulted a ten year old in the ladies loo when he was 17.
Now, age 26, he will be in the juvenile girls wing of a treatment centre.

All this kind pandering cooing provides support for injustices such as this.

It is OK to assert reality, even if some people find it hurtful. Only women get pregnant, even if they don't think the word applies to them.

Maybe we should validate all body dysphoria - where’s the emoji for an anorexic?

Validating anorexic dysmorphia doesn't have a better outcome for the person. Validating a transperson's dysphoria does.

This is a really unhelpful comparison. Eating disorders are not at all similar to gender dysphoria. Anorexia can be treated and 1 in 4 people with anorexia die of the disorder. There are good reasons the dysphoria and dysmorphia are treated so differently.

I still think women's spaces need protecting but rowing about a bloody emoji is not the way to achieve this.

But it’s not just a “bloody emoji” - to suggest it is is a reductive argument.

AIBU to feel like this? Or is it justified?

No, and no.

Having had a look at it, I can't really see the difference, in the images, between the pregnant woman, and the pregnant woman supposedly socially presenting as a man. The pregnant woman supposedly socially presenting as a man has a blue top on and slightly straighter slightly shorter hair, but my hair is cut like that at the moment, and I have several blue tops. And I'm definitely female.

Regressive, old-fashioned, sexist stereotypes, anyone?

@1Week what exactly is your point? That we should assume all trans people are predatory and violent?

Doesn't bother me - as long as the woman is still there it's irrelevant

[quote Ifitistobesaid]@1Week what exactly is your point? That we should assume all trans people are predatory and violent?[/quote]
My point is obvious, and spelt out clearly above.
Pandering to minor bullshit snowballs into pandering to major bullshit.
Like an adult male pedophile housed with young girls.

I didn't say all trans people are predators, so stop trying to put words in my mouth. But self ID is a fucking gift to predators who want access to victims, and a cushier ride if/when they're caught.

In order to be recognised as a man a woman requires a GRC. To get the certificate she has to commit to living as a man for the rest of her life. As it is impossible for any man to be pregnant the GRC should be revoked as soon as she becomes pregnant

It took forever to have an emoji for periods despite half the population having them during their life. There has been 1 pregnant transman in this country and this emoji has been created. That's an interesting comparison of the priorities of google isn't it.

@slashlover

Women get pregnant and have babies. End of.

Right. But some women have short hair. Or some women have transitioned and now have masculine features, why should they not be represented?

The emoji is called 'pregnant man' .. are you implying that women with short hair are men? Lol

It’s just a person with short hair tbh! Call them a trans man or whatever you like - you do see people who look like that being pregnant

I mean if could be a trans man or it could be a woman with short hair- and all of the different ones could be non binary

@PinkyU

Except they’re not women, they’re trans men.

They are biologically female which is why they can carry a pregnancy, they are still trans men, not women.

Female: biological

Woman: socially constructed

No, masculine and feminine are socially constructed, not man and woman.

Man/woman male/female = biology

Masculine/feminine = social construct

They can fuck right off with their pregnant person, this really pisses me off.

@Wakemein2023

There's no evidence at all that 'validating' a transman's dysmorphia helps them. There are very few middle-aged transmen because this is such a new phenomenon. But Buck Angel, a transman aged 57, has been very clear that taking testosterone proved almost fatal.

There's growing evidence that taking experimental hormones is incredibly dangerous. Even the (trans) surgeons who operated on Jazz Jennings are now saying that puberty blockers are a mistake.

Many of us have fact-based concerns about 'validating' drug-taking. It can not only harm the person taking the experimental drugs but also cause irreversible damage to any children that they have.

@CounsellorTroi

Interesting that a biological woman who identifies as non-binary or as male would do the most womanly act possible of becoming pregnant.

Do you think that a woman who cannot or does not want to become pregnant is less of a woman then?

I'm going through IVF and am facing a childless future. I do not think a woman who cannot or does not have children is less of a woman. I do think that only biological women can become pregnant and give birth. A woman can dress however she likes and present herself in society however she likes. She can call herself Bob and and tell everyone to use he / him. She is still a biological woman. Human beings cannot change their sex.

I’m childless because my female biology doesn’t work properly - it doesn’t make me any less of a woman and not one single GC woman on here has ever even implied I am

TRA on the other hand think nothing of weaponising womens infertility as some kind of gotcha to imply we are on a par with a TW who can’t get pregnant because they’re actually fucking male

There are pregnant people who identify as men or non binary.

When men get pregnant then I'll accept a pregnant person identifying as a man. Being pregnant is just about the most female thing you can do. The GRA currently requires you to live as your acquired gender for a period of time before a GRC is issued. How does getting pregnant square with living as a man, whatever that means. You can of course claim to be whatever you like according to how you feel but the rest of us should not be coerced into lying, it's a form of abuse.

I should have thought that if a woman has dysphoria about her sex to the point that she wants to remove all her secondary sex characteristics (breasts, uterus, ovaries), and fill her body with artificial hormones so she can present socially as masculine,

then the absolutely worst thing to keep on exacerbating that dysphoria would be to do the most womanly, female thing you can do: conceive, bear & give birth to a child.

It's something only women, (regarded as a grouping), can do (although not all individual women do or can).

many hilarious things on this thread, but this especially-

they might identify as non binary specifically because they feel that "woman" is heavily linked to a bunch of social roles/history/narratives that they don't identify with but are fine with the biological stuff.

allow me to introduce a revolutionary new concept, feminism, which amongst other beliefs proposes that 'a bunch of social roles/history/narratives' are part of the system in place to OPPRESS women- and are not inherent in being female whatsoever. Therefore women are entirely at liberty to refuse any or all of these 'narratives' (aka stereotypes) and will still remain women.

Thanks to 2nd wave feminism, there are thousands upon thousands of us who have rejected stereotypes, are perfectly content with our biology and have grasped the astonishing fact that we can chose how to be women without calling ourselves something different.

hence myself and most of my contemporaries have amazingly navigated pregnancy, birth, breatfeeding and beyond with short hair! and trousers! and without make up!
amazing, but true

Very well said @CurbsideProphet and @Theeyeballsinthesky

[quote secsee]@harrystylestaylorswift

So at what point to they become a woman? How does a transwoman experience the female experience? You're unintentionally invalidating those who don't pass, surely? You need to pass as a woman to have the woman experience.

I'd also add, it's generally harder to pass convincingly as a TW vs TM. And most trans people aren't going to have the money to do all the work required (facial surgery, breast, voice feminisation, hairline, hair removal/electrolysis, possibly fat transfer).

So maybe what you said would be true if they did all. that but it doesn't take sense to say before they had the female experience, I don't think[/quote]
I think trans women have their own experiences that cis-women don't. I think some trans-women that pass more will experience the same misogyny that cis-women do based on the fact that the men perpetuating that misogyny don't know that they're trans. I personally think trans-women are valid whether they pass or not as I know not everyone can afford to transition privately and the waiting list on the NHS is lengthy. I am of the minority opinion that the vast majority of trans-women are perfectly normal and don't threaten my existence as a cis-woman at all. I don't agree with gender neutral toilets as I think openly inviting men into an area we are vulnerable in is safe in the slightest but I also don't exclude trans-women from female toilets. I have been in female loos with trans-women who are obviously pre-transition and they've used the toilet and minded their own business like everyone else. My original post wasn't to invalidate those who don't pass but to simply point out the reality that those who do pass will have different experiences as a trans woman.