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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To use benefits to put down a deposit for a house

435 replies

Bringinglightandpeace · 28/01/2022 14:08

Hello all,

This thread is not about me.

I have a friend who is feeling incredibly guilty. This is how it goes... so she applied for benefits, she has children and a husband,,, well technically partner but anyway she received a huge backlog of benefits. She confided in me that she would like to use the money to to put down a deposit for a help to buy scheme or shared ownership. I told her "well you have to use every opportunity that you can get" but in my conscience, I was thinking, is this right? I am on benefits myself so not judging at all. She feels a bit down about it as it's not her hard on money that she used to put a deposit down..but then again some parents give their children money for a deposit... so I guess it's similar.

However, I feel a bit of itch and thought to myself that I don't think what she is doing is right. But then again, I don't want to come across as jealous. What do you all think?

OP posts:
Aomame · 29/01/2022 06:21

It sounds like it's a big backdate of PIP that's then resulted in a big backdate of a disability premium on her JSA/ESA. The thing is though, she should only be entitled to the disability premium if she has no other adults living with her.

Yants · 29/01/2022 07:23

At least it puts to bed the myth that choosing to live a lifestyle supported by benefits will result in penury and poverty.

And for the majority of able bodied claimants it very much is a deliberate lifestyle choice... choosing to have children they can't afford and then deliberately limiting the number of hours they choose to work to the minimal/optimal for claiming maximum benefit entitlement even when permanent full time hours are available to them.

Willyoujustbequiet · 29/01/2022 08:25

@yants

Don't be so ridiculous. The vast majority of those on benefits live in poverty.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 29/01/2022 08:32

@Yants

At least it puts to bed the myth that choosing to live a lifestyle supported by benefits will result in penury and poverty.

And for the majority of able bodied claimants it very much is a deliberate lifestyle choice... choosing to have children they can't afford and then deliberately limiting the number of hours they choose to work to the minimal/optimal for claiming maximum benefit entitlement even when permanent full time hours are available to them.

Nonsense.
Bringsexyback · 29/01/2022 08:33

They won’t be able to buy a house using that money when they go to apply for the mortgage still have to account for where the deposit comes from and if they don’t believe the story, which they won’t because it doesn’t add up whoever they apply to the mortgage for has to report them to the Dwp.

Fr0thandBubble · 29/01/2022 08:48

[quote misssunshine4040]@frothandbubble.

No I'm not ridiculous. Maybe we should live in a system that was fairer and you didn't work a 60 hour week and barely saw your children?

[/quote]
I wouldn’t have to I didn’t have to give 45% of my salary in income tax. The “rich” aren’t to blame - they are the ones who provide for everyone else (you seem to have no gratitude or appreciation for that though, you seem to just think you are entitled to even more of their hard-earned money). It’s thieves like this woman that are the problem.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 29/01/2022 08:50

@Fr0thandBubble you think poor people should be "appreciative" to rich people? Have a word with yourself. And you are deluded if you think they all work hard for that money.

Fr0thandBubble · 29/01/2022 09:04

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@Fr0thandBubble you think poor people should be "appreciative" to rich people? Have a word with yourself. And you are deluded if you think they all work hard for that money.[/quote]
Yes I absolutely do. If you’re on benefits, fine. But you should bloody well be grateful for it because other people are literally working to provide for you.

But you’re not grateful are you? You just think they should pay you even more. And, yes, there are some rich people who don’t have to work that hard - maybe they inherited or just got extremely lucky - but let me tell you that the vast majority work bloody hard.

I work 60 hours every week - that doesn’t include commuting time - and I come from a very poor, working class family. So I am not some rich “elite”. I have worked extremely hard for everything I have, and I’m fed up of paying for people who just can’t be arsed and feel that everyone else should pay for them and complain when they think it’s not enough.

ShallWeTalkAboutBruno · 29/01/2022 09:12

Fucking hell. We’re ‘higher’ earners (six figures) and if I think about it (rarely) I’m glad our tax helps to provide a safety net for those who need it. Sounds like @Fr0thandBubble has a messiah complex going on.

Adylans · 29/01/2022 09:14

I mean better that than it go into a landlord, she’s going to be paying someone’s mortgage then it may as well be her own

sst1234 · 29/01/2022 09:14

@Yants

At least it puts to bed the myth that choosing to live a lifestyle supported by benefits will result in penury and poverty.

And for the majority of able bodied claimants it very much is a deliberate lifestyle choice... choosing to have children they can't afford and then deliberately limiting the number of hours they choose to work to the minimal/optimal for claiming maximum benefit entitlement even when permanent full time hours are available to them.

Unfortunately this is very true for many still. It gets peoples backs up to hear it but for too many people it’s not a safety net, it’s a lifestyle choice.
sst1234 · 29/01/2022 09:16

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@Fr0thandBubble you think poor people should be "appreciative" to rich people? Have a word with yourself. And you are deluded if you think they all work hard for that money.[/quote]
Getting free money for doing nothing is a privilege. What’s with the chip on the shoulder and rage against the people who provide the free money.

caringcarer · 29/01/2022 09:19

Not sure why having a partner living with her is an issue unless she has declared she lives alone and that is why she was awarded benefit. If that is the case it would be fraud and she should contact benefits to clarify situation. Has partner only just moved in? If so she would still be entitled to past benefits but not future ones. If money is legally hers she can do whatever she wants with it.

caringcarer · 29/01/2022 09:26

@mcsceamysghostpants, that sounds like a really good arrangement. I think my SN foster son will need similar. As he gets older he wants independence but in reality he would not be able to cope alone. He would not be safe.

LakieLady · 29/01/2022 09:29

It's absolutely fine. And in the long run, it may well save the state money as she won't get UC/HB for the part of the property that she buys.

If benefits worked properly, people wouldn't be getting huge arrears payments anyway. People would get paid what they're entitled to, when they're entitled to it.

caringcarer · 29/01/2022 09:32

The reason the government cannot pay legitimate claimants more money is because scummy people make fraudulent claims and effectively steal from the pot of money for genuine claimants. I would have no hesitation in reporting her.

LakieLady · 29/01/2022 09:32

@Aomame

It sounds like it's a big backdate of PIP that's then resulted in a big backdate of a disability premium on her JSA/ESA. The thing is though, she should only be entitled to the disability premium if she has no other adults living with her.
Not necessarily. If the second adult also gets the daily living component of PIP, they're entitled to 2 SDP's if they're on legacy benefits.
beautifullymad · 29/01/2022 09:33

''No she is going to rely on her partners wage. He would apply for the deposit she would just transfer the money to him. He is working and has a good job, with decent/ish money.''

If it's PIP it's not means tested so not fraudulent.

But if she's not married, transferring this money to a partner (UK law) means it's 100% his. He can walk away at any time with all her benefit lump sum.

The very least she should be registering the purchase with the land registry in both names. But check with the mortgage provider that this is possible before committing to buy.

Agrudge · 29/01/2022 09:38

Putting the fraud aside how Is she going to afford a mortgage when the housing benifit is taken away?

Dishwashersaurous · 29/01/2022 09:40

It's not the PIP thats fraudulent.

It's the backdated payment of a means tested benefit.

Means tested benefits are based on the household income.

Not declaring that you live with someone who is earning is fraud

Theluggage15 · 29/01/2022 09:42

How would someone who has or had massive debts get a mortgage, it will turn up on the credit check that he’s rubbish with money.

HumourReplacementTherapy · 29/01/2022 09:45

A large payment will be flagged and looked into to. Think about.
The fraud team aren't arsed if someone's been paid an extra £100 or so, it needs to be worth their resources.
End of financial year approaching and benefit review checks.
Someone could shop her at any point as living together then they'll look back to the beginning of her claim.
If she's happy to live with the fact she could receive a custodial sentence (claiming ignorance isn't a defence) tell her to go ahead.
She's in cloud cuckoo land anyway if she thinks she'll get a mortgage

Agrudge · 29/01/2022 09:46

@grey12

She's entitled to the money Wink

I find it terrible is when people are allowed to buy for dirt cheap council housing though Envy if they can afford it, they need to move out and leave it for someone else who is in a bad situation

If I was in the position to buy a cheap house that I'd paid rent to for how ever many years I was there . I wouldnt hesitate to use the right to buy scheme.

The benifit system in this country is there screw over the sensible people who put money aside for the future. And reward the people who piss there wages up the wall every weekend and spend spend every penny the get

LakieLady · 29/01/2022 09:46

Getting free money for doing nothing is a privilege. What’s with the chip on the shoulder and rage against the people who provide the free money.

Privilege? I think most people on benefits would prefer the privilege of being well enough to get and keep a job, or capable of finding a job that they can actually get to and from AND get their kids to school, or not have family members that require care and prevent them from working.

I swear some people would prefer us to be like some third world country where the poor and the sick have to beg in the streets.

If people were prepared to pay more tax, and stopped voting for low-tax, low spend parties, we might not have people, including children, wasting years trying to get assessments and treatment, and functioning public transport that can get them to work and back.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 29/01/2022 09:47

@Dishwashersaurous

It's not the PIP thats fraudulent.

It's the backdated payment of a means tested benefit.

Means tested benefits are based on the household income.

Not declaring that you live with someone who is earning is fraud

The PIP may also be fraudulent if OP’s friend is planning to go back to full time work when it’s more convenient
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