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Original poster

To use benefits to put down a deposit for a house

435 replies

Bringinglightandpeace · 28/01/2022 14:08

Hello all,

This thread is not about me.

I have a friend who is feeling incredibly guilty. This is how it goes... so she applied for benefits, she has children and a husband,,, well technically partner but anyway she received a huge backlog of benefits. She confided in me that she would like to use the money to to put down a deposit for a help to buy scheme or shared ownership. I told her "well you have to use every opportunity that you can get" but in my conscience, I was thinking, is this right? I am on benefits myself so not judging at all. She feels a bit down about it as it's not her hard on money that she used to put a deposit down..but then again some parents give their children money for a deposit... so I guess it's similar.

However, I feel a bit of itch and thought to myself that I don't think what she is doing is right. But then again, I don't want to come across as jealous. What do you all think?

OP posts:
woodhill · 28/01/2022 18:22

Yes, great sense of morals to commit fraudConfused

use257 · 28/01/2022 18:24

"Friend" is defo you

jb7445 · 28/01/2022 18:25

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Suzi888 · 28/01/2022 18:30

Bringinglightandpeace
But the issue is that I know of many people who do this and they do not get caught.

No they don’t. Evidence and investigations take time and money. It’s basically an interest free loan if you get caught these days and then you can just re-apply.
I worked in fraud - admittedly years ago, when there were IUC’s and surveillance. I have colleagues that still do it- thankless job.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 28/01/2022 18:30

@jb7445

I'm coming at this from a different angle.

OP has stated that her friend can't work currently due to childcare issues. So her options appear to be -

  • partner moves out. She continues to claim the same level of benefits. Partner possibly also claims top up HB and WTC. This continues for the foreseeable future as friend has just had a baby and cannot get a job that pays enough to cover childcare. Result - increased cost to taxpayer.
  • partner stays, friend ceases fraudulent claim (and pays back overpaid benefit?). Couple make a joint claim which (unless the partner is on a very good wage) will probably still be substantial. Result - short term gain for the taxpayer, but long term they will never be able to pay off the debts and will probably be stuck in a rut claiming what they can and living in miserable conditions for a very long time (if not forever).
  • friend uses the money for a house. Partner pays off his debt. Friend gets a job. Result - couple are now largely independent (maybe with some top up benefits eg WTC like many families) and able to build a decent future for themselves and their kids without being a long term burden on the taxpayer.

To me it's a no-brainer Confused

Well, at least you’re correct with the “no brain” part
GirlInACountrySong · 28/01/2022 18:39

'no brainer' my arse!!!

Blackisblackisblack · 28/01/2022 18:39

Are you sure this 'friend' isn't you?

You seem to know a lot about their financial situ.

52andblue · 28/01/2022 19:15

I meant if the house is put in her name too. I just think its A). A mistake to not declare he lives there as potential fraud of DWP. and B). She is likely to lose her money if she gives it to him (even IF they can get a mortgage anyway ?)

ToCaden · 28/01/2022 19:20

Google gov. UK and 'report benefit fraud' . Fill out the form with as much detail as possible. You can send further online forms if you learn further details to help them look into this.

Too many people defraud the system. Don't stand idly by and let it happen.

A few thousand pounds times multiple thousand people adds up to a lot of taxpayer money. And that is unfortunately a small estimate.

There will be excuses such as 'we're not married' or 'I didn' t know two people couldn't claim for the same child even in joint custody agreements. ' Bottom line is it' s fraud and you're either taking more money from others than you're entitled to, or you're standing idly by and letting people get away with it by not reporting.

LifesABotch · 28/01/2022 22:36

@Bringinglightandpeace benefits don't typically pay a massive 'backlog', it's sometimes backdated a month or so, but no more than that so wouldn't ever be a massive amount? There's no such thing as a massive amount of benefit payments anyway! Hence why people are dying, waiting for decisions on PIP etc.

LifesABotch · 28/01/2022 22:38

@Cherrybomb197

Ahhhh... so she is claiming as a single parent but she is not actually a single parent. To be honest growing up I knew lots of people doing that. She might as well save it towards a deposit. But remember that she won’t get housing benefit for a mortgage iirc!
I know of someone who went to jail for this. It's very, very serious
JustLyra · 29/01/2022 00:06

[quote LifesABotch]@Bringinglightandpeace benefits don't typically pay a massive 'backlog', it's sometimes backdated a month or so, but no more than that so wouldn't ever be a massive amount? There's no such thing as a massive amount of benefit payments anyway! Hence why people are dying, waiting for decisions on PIP etc.[/quote]
If it’s PIP it can be massive. I know someone who waited 15 months for their tribunal - their backdated award was almost 10k as they were (correctly) awarded the higher rate for both parts.

For anyone who was then entitled to backdated element amounts of other benefits that could rack up.

Fr0thandBubble · 29/01/2022 00:34

@GivenchyDahhling

Do you think people on benefits don’t deserve to own their own homes OP?
People like this fuck me off. I’ve just finished a 60 hour week, have barely seen my children, all to fund fuckers like this. You should shop her OP, and tell her that what she is doing is completely wrong.
Fr0thandBubble · 29/01/2022 00:40

@misssunshine4040

Shame there's not as much outrage at the government defrauding our taxes everyday than moaning about joe bloggs and a few grand. It's not right of course not but all this "my taxes pay for there house" and there are less public services because of fraudulent claimants... Its not true, the welfare bill is small. The tiny minority defraud it and those who do are usually in poverty. The rich elites shaft you over a million times more
Oh for fuck’s sake. You’re ridiculous.
thecatsinthecradle · 29/01/2022 00:43

This is a remarkably sensible way to spend money she is entitled to. What else would you suggest she does with it??

Fr0thandBubble · 29/01/2022 00:48

@thecatsinthecradle

This is a remarkably sensible way to spend money she is entitled to. What else would you suggest she does with it??
She is NOT entitled to it, she is committing benefit fraud.

OP shop her. I have reported two people I know who have committed benefit fraud, and I wouldn’t hesitate to do it again.

sst1234 · 29/01/2022 00:50

OP is the ‘friend’ and is committing fraud, ripping off the taxpayer and now trying to justify it by asking random strangers on the internet. And people wonder why the general public’s attitude towards welfare has hardened so much in the last decade or so. Even anecdotes like this one show how easy it is to rip off the system.

thecatsinthecradle · 29/01/2022 00:50

@Fr0thandBubble I've just read the updates. Talk about a drip feed, OP 🙄

I'd probs report her tbh. She's stolen this money

sst1234 · 29/01/2022 00:54

@jb7445

I'm coming at this from a different angle.

OP has stated that her friend can't work currently due to childcare issues. So her options appear to be -

  • partner moves out. She continues to claim the same level of benefits. Partner possibly also claims top up HB and WTC. This continues for the foreseeable future as friend has just had a baby and cannot get a job that pays enough to cover childcare. Result - increased cost to taxpayer.
  • partner stays, friend ceases fraudulent claim (and pays back overpaid benefit?). Couple make a joint claim which (unless the partner is on a very good wage) will probably still be substantial. Result - short term gain for the taxpayer, but long term they will never be able to pay off the debts and will probably be stuck in a rut claiming what they can and living in miserable conditions for a very long time (if not forever).
  • friend uses the money for a house. Partner pays off his debt. Friend gets a job. Result - couple are now largely independent (maybe with some top up benefits eg WTC like many families) and able to build a decent future for themselves and their kids without being a long term burden on the taxpayer.

To me it's a no-brainer Confused

Your angle is about 180 degrees off. Try again.
sst1234 · 29/01/2022 00:55

[quote thecatsinthecradle]@Fr0thandBubble I've just read the updates. Talk about a drip feed, OP 🙄

I'd probs report her tbh. She's stolen this money[/quote]
It’s a drip feed because like someone else upthread said, OP is the friend and is sounding people out about whether should would get caught. And did a runner as soon as she got answers she did not like.

blyn72 · 29/01/2022 03:16

I don't see any point in you telling your friend how you feel about this and I note you say it will only be for a couple of months anyway. She may be caught, she may not but she really should not be telling anyone, no matter how close she is to them. Walls have ears.

misssunshine4040 · 29/01/2022 04:43

@frothandbubble.

No I'm not ridiculous. Maybe we should live in a system that was fairer and you didn't work a 60 hour week and barely saw your children?

Wrinklefree · 29/01/2022 05:10

Of course she can, if she is currently getting help with rent, she will not be entitled to that once she has a mortgage.

lborgia · 29/01/2022 05:12

The partner is not paying off his debts, the tax payer is. I'm sorry, I've not read the last page, but this is where I'm up to.

She is committing fraud by pretending to live alone. How can the 3 of you be so stupid that you think this is OK?

Some of the first questions on forms is about your living arrangements. At some point she has physically written on a piece of paper that he does not exist.

It also does not matter if it's a house share with a housing association, or a private mortgage, she will still have to declare exactly their circumstances, and I honestly don't know what she could say that would make this ok.

Meanwhile, one phrase you used leapt right out at me.

She will give him the money, and he will use it as the deposit?

Given his history with money I would bet my house that the money will not end up with the solicitor, he'll say "why do we even need a house?" and he'll gradually work his way through that money as well.

If you do end up with a house, and then the fraud is discovered, it will by that stage be a prison issue, because they'll be looking at benefit fraud, mortgage fraud, and bank fraud at the least.

You do know that just because it all involves council money, and government money, it still counts, right? You still can't " just, sort of, well I thought it would be ok" about it?

Would you walk into the bank of England and expect them to overlook this shit?

I don't care WHAT she was trying to achieve, and I'm surprised I'm saying that, but this idea that the benefits office will look on you benignly like a cosy mum and dad ages me want to smack someone.

grey12 · 29/01/2022 05:52

She's entitled to the money Wink

I find it terrible is when people are allowed to buy for dirt cheap council housing though Envy if they can afford it, they need to move out and leave it for someone else who is in a bad situation