Is it illegal to kill a wild animal at work?

[SilverDoe]

Posting for traffic. Is illegal/possible to pursue for animal cruelty if someone kills a wild animal in their work place?

I have been googling but I can only find information really regarding livestock and pets.

That’s really upsetting op, I’m so sorry l.

I find it very odd that mumsnet is so obsessed with dogs (that you’re not allowed to say anything even vaguely negative about them) and yet this isn’t considered abhorrent?

Magpies are very intelligent.

Oh I do hope I end up in court, I really do.

I do not have a habit of this at all, but unsurprisingly to everyone but you, when innocent, intelligent little animals are killed for no good reason, I do have the ability to be angry and feel it should be addressed.

@Inspectorslack

At this point it’s pure speculation because you don’t know why the manager killed the bird or how he or she did it.

How is that speculation that the bird was killed though?

This thread is bonkers. Op suspects something quite horrible happened. Op reports it for further investigation to take place. Op has not slated anyone on social media, she has posted on an anonymous forum asking for advice.

Why are people making out she is the devil incarnate?

You absolutely shouldn't have sent the complain email on the basis of the information you had at that time, which was a) second-hand and b) vague and inconclusive. You could, quite easily, have caused a man to be disciplined for something he may not have done.

IF the shop manager brutally killed a friendly local mascot for no good reason, then he's an asshole - I agree with you there. Horrible thing to do. But you STILL don't know exactly what happened, and when you sent that email, you had even less idea than you do now. So YABU.

It might have been badly injured.

It might have been despatched in accordance with the law.

It might have just been dead. Keeled over. This is a dead magpie, channelling Monty Python.

You have no idea. And you’ve posted here which is stalked by scum media to whip up a froth about something that you’ve no actual evidence of. (And no your husband heard someone tell someone else it was the manager is not evidence)

I don't agree at all @sadpapercourtesan. It warrants investigation as a bird has been killed. If he got a disciplinary it would be because he was to be found in the wrong. It is actually much more of a chance that he would have been in the wrong and there would be sufficient evidence to do something than it would be that he was in the right but somehow a mountain of evidence suggested he was in the wrong.

I have never had more or less information. My dp who I trust explicitly told me that he had been in the shop and had heard from a conversation right in front of him, between multiple staff and a customer, that the bird had been killed and the manager had been the cause. The only thing that wasn't confirmed was how the bird was killed. So of course, on that basis, I did and do feel justified in reaching out to the store to say that a bird had been killed and that I expected this to be dealt with properly.

insufficient evidence to do something*

It is actually much more of a chance that he would have been in the wrong and there would be sufficient evidence to do something than it would be that he was in the right but somehow a mountain of evidence suggested he was in the wrong.

Do you understand how evidence works at all?

@Inspectorslack

It might have been badly injured.

It might have been despatched in accordance with the law.

It might have just been dead. Keeled over. This is a dead magpie, channelling Monty Python.

You have no idea. And you’ve posted here which is stalked by scum media to whip up a froth about something that you’ve no actual evidence of. (And no your husband heard someone tell someone else it was the manager is not evidence)

This is repetitive, it's all been said before. Of course it warrants an investigation. In what other setting would it ever be okay to hear that someone had killed or hurt something and to just shrug one's shoulders and go "meh, I didn't see it happen, best not to say anything".

Seriously please give me literally any other fucking scenario where you had heard personally that something bad had happened to someone or something and you would just sit back and say nothing.

@Inspectorslack

It is actually much more of a chance that he would have been in the wrong and there would be sufficient evidence to do something than it would be that he was in the right but somehow a mountain of evidence suggested he was in the wrong.

Do you understand how evidence works at all?

See my other reply to you.

@ToykotoLosAngeles

This is not a thread title I was expecting!

It depends on the animal.

And the job! Our local moleman is in great demand at the moment.

My friend heard your dads neighbour say that you stamp on kittens.

There’s my “fucking” scenario where I would do precisely nothing.

An overheard 3rd hand conversation is not and never will be evidence of wrong doing.

Can you not see how preposterous you sound, wittering high-handedly about "mountains of evidence" and investigations? You weren't there and you don't know what happened! Your partner overheard a conversation in a shop, concerning the alleged actions of someone who also wasn't there. On the strength of that, you have reported this guy to his employer, which could have a major impact on his life.

What sort of "investigation" do you think Co-op head office are going to conduct? Do you think they have a wildlife detective division who are going to come out with notebooks and binoculars? No - they are likely either to ignore your ridiculous complaint, or sack the poor fucker. Let's hope it's the former.

@Inspectorslack

It is actually much more of a chance that he would have been in the wrong and there would be sufficient evidence to do something than it would be that he was in the right but somehow a mountain of evidence suggested he was in the wrong.

Do you understand how evidence works at all?

And actually, WHAT?? What are you trying to pretend to understand so well that you can't see the blindingly obvious truth that if someone did something that is clearly so inconsequential to the world as kill a poor little animal, that any disciplinary action would actually go ahead and be taken unless the employer had clear evidence that what had been done had actually been wrong an unnecessary?

Are you suggesting that based off of my email alone that this person would just be fired? BULLSHIT. Unless other staff confirm that this guy inhumanely killed this magpie himself, NOTHING will happen. People just do not care enough to hold him to such a high standard of accountability over something like this. And if people did come forward and say this, then obviously it would be true!

Oh for goodness sake.

Wise up.

Your husband. Not even you. Overheard a conversation between a shop worker (who wasn’t involved in the murder or crows sorry magpies) and a shouty lady.

This is not and never will be evidence.

I hope to goodness co op have a titter of wit.

@sadpapercourtesan they could probably just review the CCTV....it's not difficult

Oh dear op.

@SilverDoe

You guys are fucking cracked, honestly. I care about the bird who is no longer alive more than your pissing and whining and posturing about "evidence". I won't say it again, the staff CONFIRMED that the magpie had been killed by the manager. I don't give a flying fuck, quite frankly, who and who not this counts as "good enough evidence" for.

I won't be updating this thread any longer, so I would like my last post to be on a better note.

Goodbye little magpie, seeing you brightened the days of many humans around you. I hope you didn't suffer much and above anything, I'm sad that you're no longer part of this world.

Well, happy emoting OP. While you're about it, there's a dead beetle outside my back door you might want to have a funeral for. I tried to do a two-minute silence but the phone rang.

Actually agree with OP here. Some of you are truly awful. If you suspected something like this had happened why would you not push for an investigation? It's either true in which case the dickhead responsible should be disciplined. Or it's not in which case nothing will happen. Why are you bleating about the op costing someone their job? Do you understand how employment works? You can't just go around sacking people with no investigation or evidence. Haven't you heard of Sue Gray?

Some people are so desperate for a row it's pathetic. If I had reason to believe something like this had happened I would report it too. So that it could be looked into properly and the FACTS established. All the comments about it being injured or a danger to the store are valid but there are more humane ways to deal with it.

OP if the magpie kept going into his shop then I'm sure he is legally allowed to kill it as it is being a nuisance. Adults and children encouraging it to be friendly didn't do it any favours. It's a wild bird.

Magpies are predators and take baby birds and eggs out of smaller birds' nests to eat.

Hearsay - the report of another person's words by a witness

Your account doesn't even rise to the quality of hearsay - it's second hand hearsay. Your partner overheard a conversation, filled in the gaps, repeated it to you, and your imagination has gone to town.

You have accused this man of "stomping" or "strangling" an animal to death based on your wild imagination and your analysis of what a retelling of an overheard conversation means.

You have zero evidence of anything and certainly no evidence to support your horrendous allegations.

"My partner overheard an argument and I have made wild extrapolations to fill the gaps" is not evidence.

Good luck with defending the defamation claim.

@SilverDoe

You guys are fucking cracked, honestly. I care about the bird who is no longer alive more than your pissing and whining and posturing about "evidence". I won't say it again, the staff CONFIRMED that the magpie had been killed by the manager. I don't give a flying fuck, quite frankly, who and who not this counts as "good enough evidence" for.

I won't be updating this thread any longer, so I would like my last post to be on a better note.

Goodbye little magpie, seeing you brightened the days of many humans around you. I hope you didn't suffer much and above anything, I'm sad that you're no longer part of this world.

I’m not sure if you’ll see this comment. I am glad there are people like you around that at least have some compassion. It says something when posters are more concerned about ‘evidence’, than acknowledging the fact this cruel fucker has killed a defenceless bird.

This is the absolute definition of hearsay. What someone else has told you they have heard someone say. About something that it sounds like they may well not have witnessed.

Clearly the bird could not safely be permitted to crap all over a food shop, environmental health would have a field day. I hope the bird was put down humanely by a professional. Which from the information you have given could well be the case: the manager would have been the one to call them.