Is it illegal to kill a wild animal at work?

[SilverDoe]

Posting for traffic. Is illegal/possible to pursue for animal cruelty if someone kills a wild animal in their work place?

I have been googling but I can only find information really regarding livestock and pets.

@nokidshere

If a magpie is there this afternoon how will you determine if it's the same one or not?

That would actually be very easy, there is only one who behaves in such a way.

He is dead btw. I spoke to DP about it again as he was leaving for the school run. The lady also spoke to a female staff member and what he heard was basically the lady saying "how could you kill an innocent creature" and the lady staff member saying "it wasn't us it was the manager".

So, the magpie has, as I said, without a doubt, been killed. Due to the speed of which the magpie has been killed since we last saw him, I also still believe that the timeline can only lead to one conclusion: the manager did it by his own hands. I hope DP gets some answers.

I’m with you OP, 100%. I’m afraid this kind of thing - unnecessary lack of compassion and unwarranted cruelty - is why I tend to think humans as a species are pretty shitty, the toxic ape. The trolling and hate you are getting on this thread is unbelievable also. But so many people are ignorant and in denial about the suffering of other species…
Complain hard, his grim actions should have consequences! Cheering you on

What more evidence does anyone need after OPs post about the whole conversation in the store, with ALL the staff present (not just "a crazy lady") and no one denying it, but making it clear the bird was killed???
What further evidence is the OP supposed to produce?
I wish that bird was someone's pet (is that a possibility?), then at least there could be "criminal damage" to someone's "pissession" if it doesn't meet the cruelty against animals criteria It's awful that we value other creatures' lives so little- and I mean legally too

I would be really upset about this too op, but I would want to know the facts before I took any action. Unfortunately hearsay is NOT facts, therefore I think you need to be careful before saying too much! It is possible that the shopkeeper didn’t kill this poor little bird (though I agree, it certainly looks like he did) and could take action against you for slander!

I can’t understand why anyone is cruel to defenceless creatures, but unfortunately it does happen and does need to be reported to the relevant authorities, but as I have already said there does need to be proof to back up any accusations.

“nokidshere

If a magpie is there this afternoon how will you determine if it's the same one or not?“

Because it would not behave in the same extraordinary ways that the magpie in question did.

Haven't ready the whole thread but could be avian flu related, or even just basic food hygiene?
I'm sure it's cute but when it's pecking at your laces but if it's getting into the supermarket it'll end up scavenging and could spread all sorts of nasties. Sounds dramatic but I don't fancy visiting a Waitrose wet market anytime soon!

Thank you for the recent posts, I have a severe tendency to doubt myself and I actually never complain about anything, this is the first formal complaint I have ever made, and I am really saddened and shocked at the way some people have acted. Like I should be the one feeling awful because I have brought some awful behaviour to attention.

And yes although I suppose it may be possible to have asserted that maybe it didn't happen at all, it really would have been obvious to any of you had you been in the same situation.

I do wonder if the store will even continue to speak to customers about this issue. I have asked DP to go and quietly have a word to ask what happened as he feels it is out of order and is valid feedback to say so. I have a feeling they may simply no longer comment on it if multiple people are asking. I am a bit sad that my email will probably go nowhere in the end and I am considering calling for clarification.

Why should op wait until she has hard evidence? She has reason to believe it was killed. Report it to the relevant people and let them find the evidence, that's their job. She doesn't have to have concrete proof to ask for it to be looked into.

@SilverDoe “He is dead btw. I spoke to DP about it again as he was leaving for the school run. The lady also spoke to a female staff member and what he heard was basically the lady saying "how could you kill an innocent creature" and the lady staff member saying "it wasn't us it was the manager".”

Why on earth did you not find out all this information from your dh, before you contacted the co op and posted on here? You would have avoided a lot of the horrible comments you have had. I can’t understand why your dh was going to speak to the manager, to find out what had happened, when he actually already knew!!

Op's got absolutely NOTHING but a lot of he-said-she-said to go on anyway. I mean now she's added in a chorus of shop staff wailing and rending their garments in mourning, though (again) this is all stuff her H allegedly said to her and she witnessed none of it.
It's just as plausible that the H ran over the bird on the school run and cooked up this story to satisfy OP and make sure he didn't get blamed for anything, tbh.

@Cantleave
“ I can’t understand why your dh was going to speak to the manager, to find out what had happened, when he actually already knew!!‘

To hear what the manager had to say himself about what he had done, how he had done it, and his reasons? And perhaps to ask him why he had not contacted a wild life centre/other?

Thank you for the recent posts, I have a severe tendency to doubt myself and I actually never complain about anything, this is the first formal complaint I have ever made, and I am really saddened and shocked at the way some people have acted. Like I should be the one feeling awful because I have brought some awful behaviour to attention.

People were not annoyed because you complained, they were annoyed because you complained without knowing any of the facts.

(And yes although I suppose it may be possible to have asserted that maybe it didn't happen at all, it really would have been obvious to any of you had you been in the same situation.

Hearing it third hand? Or because it was hopping around a few days ago? You realise animals can go downhill quickly, or that an accident takes a split second?

I do wonder if the store will even continue to speak to customers about this issue. I have asked DP to go and quietly have a word to ask what happened as he feels it is out of order and is valid feedback to say so. I have a feeling they may simply no longer comment on it if multiple people are asking. I am a bit sad that my email will probably go nowhere in the end and I am considering calling for clarification.

Why do you think your email will go nowhere? You only sent it a few hours ago, head office will need to investigate first, and even then they might not be able to tell you of the outcome.

@SilverDoe

Thank you for the recent posts, I have a severe tendency to doubt myself and I actually never complain about anything, this is the first formal complaint I have ever made, and I am really saddened and shocked at the way some people have acted. Like I should be the one feeling awful because I have brought some awful behaviour to attention.

And yes although I suppose it may be possible to have asserted that maybe it didn't happen at all, it really would have been obvious to any of you had you been in the same situation.

I do wonder if the store will even continue to speak to customers about this issue. I have asked DP to go and quietly have a word to ask what happened as he feels it is out of order and is valid feedback to say so. I have a feeling they may simply no longer comment on it if multiple people are asking. I am a bit sad that my email will probably go nowhere in the end and I am considering calling for clarification.

Sadly I am not really shocked at the attitude of many posters here. I hate cruelty to any animal.

As you said, the bird could have been caught and taken to an rescue. To just kill it is disgusting.

The manager sounds like a horrible man and I would not be shopping there again while he is still there.

[quote Cantleave]**@SilverDoe “He is dead btw. I spoke to DP about it again as he was leaving for the school run. The lady also spoke to a female staff member and what he heard was basically the lady saying "how could you kill an innocent creature" and the lady staff member saying "it wasn't us it was the manager".”

Why on earth did you not find out all this information from your dh, before you contacted the co op and posted on here? You would have avoided a lot of the horrible comments you have had. I can’t understand why your dh was going to speak to the manager, to find out what had happened, when he actually already knew!![/quote]
I don't think that's fair, they are 2 different things. First of all, I am not responsible for ay "horrible comments" directed at me. If it is in someone's nature to be horrible, they would have been horrible regardess.

Furthermore, while I can't repeat the entire conversation, it was very clear right from the up front to me that the bird was dead and had been killed by the manager, which is exactly what I said the conversation confirmed all along.

The only difference is because I was speaking to DP about it again (I've been in my office and pet room the whole day) I asked him (because of the doubt cast by this thread) exactly what he heard and he reiterated. In my mind it was clear and I had this information from the beginning. Hence why I said multiple times that what I was saying was true.

I can’t understand why your dh was going to speak to the manager, to find out what had happened, when he actually already knew!!

Because as posters here have suggested very assertively and vocally, maybe he arranged for the bird to be killed humanely or something, which would technically mean I have nothing to complain about, though I would still be upset. Therefore we wanted to clarify the facts. My dp bless him was also actually really shaken up by the whole event and he actually also wanted to support the lady/magpie and tell the manager directly (though not aggressively/shoutily) that he thought it was unacceptable.

@slashlover

Thank you for the recent posts, I have a severe tendency to doubt myself and I actually never complain about anything, this is the first formal complaint I have ever made, and I am really saddened and shocked at the way some people have acted. Like I should be the one feeling awful because I have brought some awful behaviour to attention.

People were not annoyed because you complained, they were annoyed because you complained without knowing any of the facts.

(And yes although I suppose it may be possible to have asserted that maybe it didn't happen at all, it really would have been obvious to any of you had you been in the same situation.

Hearing it third hand? Or because it was hopping around a few days ago? You realise animals can go downhill quickly, or that an accident takes a split second?

I do wonder if the store will even continue to speak to customers about this issue. I have asked DP to go and quietly have a word to ask what happened as he feels it is out of order and is valid feedback to say so. I have a feeling they may simply no longer comment on it if multiple people are asking. I am a bit sad that my email will probably go nowhere in the end and I am considering calling for clarification.

Why do you think your email will go nowhere? You only sent it a few hours ago, head office will need to investigate first, and even then they might not be able to tell you of the outcome.

But that wasn't the case. Most people didn't dispute the fact the bird had been killed. I said the whole time that a conversation in the shop had taken place that had confirmed that the bird had been killed by the manager. Some people chose to believe that I did not have "evidence" of this happening, despite my assertions to the contrary. Nothing has actually changed except I have been able to type out at least almost verbatim part of the conversation which confirms the bird was killed. Materially it is exactly the same.

As I said, we do not know exactly how the bird was killed, though I suspect the manager killed him himself, which very likely would have been not humane, because how likely is it that a shop manager is also a licenced pest control expert.

@Wreath21

Op's got absolutely NOTHING but a lot of he-said-she-said to go on anyway. I mean now she's added in a chorus of shop staff wailing and rending their garments in mourning, though (again) this is all stuff her H allegedly said to her and she witnessed none of it. It's just as plausible that the H ran over the bird on the school run and cooked up this story to satisfy OP and make sure he didn't get blamed for anything, tbh.

What is actually wrong with you?

This is exactly what I was saying to a PP. People who are horrible by nature, are going to be horrible no matter what you do or say, and you are absolute living proof of that.

A staff member from the shop literally said to the woman complaining (who obviously already had enough evidence in her mind to bring this up in the first place) "it wasn't us, it was the manager".

How can anyone consider that anything but proof that the magpie had been killed, by the manager. This isn't a fucking criminal trial, what would possess a fellow member of staff to confirm that their manager had killed an animal??

My partner "allegedly" said to me omfg are you representing the shop manager in court or something??? WTAF.

What is 'wrong' with me is that people who get themselves revved up into bawling, shitstirring moral panics over hearsay can do serious damage. You, for instance, having had some gossip reported to you, are so convinced that your local shopkeeper is a bird-torturing public menace that you are trying to a)get him sacked and b) start a mass hate campaign against him. On no evidence other than something someone else told you.
Suppose someone went round telling all your friends and neighbours that you were delusional and inclined to take petty vengeance all the time, based on reading your social media?

Well illegal or not the shopkeeper is a bit of a tw*t so maybe it should be made known locally what they did and hit them in the pocket

God OP I hope you never get called up for jury duty.

@Wreath21

What is 'wrong' with me is that people who get themselves revved up into bawling, shitstirring moral panics over hearsay can do serious damage. You, for instance, having had some gossip reported to you, are so convinced that your local shopkeeper is a bird-torturing public menace that you are trying to a)get him sacked and b) start a mass hate campaign against him. On no evidence other than something someone else told you. Suppose someone went round telling all your friends and neighbours that you were delusional and inclined to take petty vengeance all the time, based on reading your social media?

It's not gossip. It is staff from the place where this happened, confirming that what I happened. It is not hearsay. Hearsay would be a rumour about an event, spread among many people, based on inaccurate information to start with. Staff from the shop have directly confirmed that the manager either killed or had the bird killed (as correct, I do not know cause of death). You are the only person who has trouble accepting that and I cannot think why you are so adamant to deny this.

You clearly are unhinged or have a massive dead bird related chip on your shoulder. I am not starting a hate campaign, and given that the information turned out to be perfectly true, I feel I have every right to complain so that I can either bring this to the company's attention to ensure it doesn't happen again, or they can put my mind at ease in some small part by proving that the bird was dealt with humanely.

Clearly the lives of small creatures matter nothing to you, but you cannot bully and berate me into feeling the same. I am thankful to say I will never be like you.

The idea of a "mass hate campaign" is again laughable, and I note that your last message trying to say this was reported and deleted. Why don't you just leave me alone and go and do something else. I am invested in this because I feel a personal connection to the local magpie and a moral obligation to stand up against animal cruelty. Literally all you have done time after time is try and berate and denigrate me for that, under the absolutely unfounded and ridiculous guise of me trying to cause a "slavering mob", when all I have done is raise a justified complaint!

@kazillionaire

Well illegal or not the shopkeeper is a bit of a tw*t so maybe it should be made known locally what they did and hit them in the pocket

And again, no one knows what the shopkeeper did or didn't do. OP wasn't there to witness any of the alleged conversations after the alleged event.

Also a post school run update, the manager will not be back in til 10am tomorrow but DP did see the shouty lady from earlier returning to the shop. He obviously did not stick around as DC was with him, so sadly no further answers yet.

@SilverDoe

My partner "allegedly" said to me omfg are you representing the shop manager in court or something??? WTAF.

Frankly, it's not impossible that you could end up in court. Particularly if you have a habit of doing this sort of thing ie letting your imagination run away with you and making accusations based on conversations reported to you rather than stuff you have actually witnessed.

At this point it’s pure speculation because you don’t know why the manager killed the bird or how he or she did it.