To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall Part 3 Cake ambush

[Notonthestairs]

To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall Part 2 http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4459992-To-be-really-enjoying-Boris-Johnsons-downfall-Part-2

And on it goes.

Sadly it was a case of people's lives being lower in priority than the animals - the effort, manpower and the organisation of the plane which was chartered meant that another plane was not able to evacuated. The shambolic and tragic events are in my view the responsibility of the government - if BJ intervened in the giving the animals priority that in my view is far worse than any party. What is more if he did intervene and felt it was morally right to do so - even though I disagree I would have respected that approach, however if he intervened and the denied intervention one has to question his motives.

[quote Prescottdanni123]@DuncinToffee

The media is still spouting the extremely damaging 'Animals before people' bullshit[/quote]
My mother believed this. But then, my mother also voted Leave and then said the next day "What have I done?"

She's was a pretty sound Centrist / previous Labour voter, but fell for the bullshit. She honestly could not voice why she voted Leave. Even though she hated her next door neighbour who was pedalling Farage's bile.

I was vocal in challenging her and the neighbour regarding The Bus Lies etc.

At one point, I asked her neighbour if she had voted for Nigel. Her reply was "No! I voted for UKIP"

The problem lies in Social media. And I also point the finger at the likes of Jeremy Vine. He allows really extreme views in order to appear (desperately) impartial.

@FatFredsFriedEgg

The slot was not the issue. There were available slots when there were not any other planes due. The Nowzad plane did not steal the spot off any bigger aircraft. The MoD got his knickers in a twist over the idea of animals in the cargo hold (where humans cannot travel for safety reasons) and blocked the landing permit completely overlooking the fact that there would be 250 refugees in the cabin in the process. By the time he changed his mind and decided to provide the landing permit, it was three days later and the US had changed the visa rules, meaning only British passport holders could leave. If he hadn't stalled for days, 250 extra people would have escaped.

@twelly

Sadly it was a case of people's lives being lower in priority than the animals - the effort, manpower and the organisation of the plane which was chartered meant that another plane was not able to evacuated. The shambolic and tragic events are in my view the responsibility of the government - if BJ intervened in the giving the animals priority that in my view is far worse than any party. What is more if he did intervene and felt it was morally right to do so - even though I disagree I would have respected that approach, however if he intervened and the denied intervention one has to question his motives.

@twelly

Animals were not being prioritised. Nowzad raised funds for it's own, privately chartered plane with 250 seats. Pen Farthing offered these 250 seats to the UK government to assist in evacuating refugees. The government said no. It didn't prevent another plane being evacuated either. There were available slots planned around the landing, boarding and take off of the evacuation aircraft.

The UK government knew for months that US was pulling out of Afghanistan but waited until the last split second to start evacuating. They stated that up to 1000 eligible refugees could be left behind but when offered an extra 250 seats a few days after this statement was released they turned the they refused to make use of them. But right at the beginning of the evacuation, pictures emerged showing several cars in planes, taking up human spaces being evacuated. They put cars above both people and animals.

[quote Prescottdanni123]@FatFredsFriedEgg

The slot was not the issue. There were available slots when there were not any other planes due. The Nowzad plane did not steal the spot off any bigger aircraft. The MoD got his knickers in a twist over the idea of animals in the cargo hold (where humans cannot travel for safety reasons) and blocked the landing permit completely overlooking the fact that there would be 250 refugees in the cabin in the process. By the time he changed his mind and decided to provide the landing permit, it was three days later and the US had changed the visa rules, meaning only British passport holders could leave. If he hadn't stalled for days, 250 extra people would have escaped.[/quote]
That's not how it was explained to me but if that is the case then fair enough.

When you say "The MoD got his knickers in a twist over the idea of animals in the cargo hold" does 'his' mean a specific person (presumably the Secretary of State for Defence) or did you just mean that the Ministry of Defence got its knickers in a twist?

There was limited time and resources - a lot of time was taken up by military personal and civil servants dealing with this issue. It was a distraction - we left people who faced almost certain death and that is what should have been the focus. If Boris Johnson contributed to this mess and confusion then that is a far worse action than any breaking of covid regulations

A thread from Kate McCann (Sky)

twitter.com/kateemccann/status/1486434102127607810?s=21
NEW: Trudy Harrison, PM's PPS, contacted a private charter company on 25 Aug 21 (same date as FCO letter) to secure plane to evacuate animals and staff for Nowzad. A private sponsor funded, but she made clear her role with PM and told staff he was keen to get animals out quickly.

Cont.

@FatFredsFriedEgg

A lot of lies has been spouted by the government and media about Nowzad. And it is this whole debacle that has prevented me from believing anything that the media publishes. It was Ben Wallace that got his knickers in a twist.

I couldn't care less about parties at No 10. I want rid of BJ because he is galvanising support for the SNP in Scotland. They're a dangerous cabal.

@twelly

There was limited time and resources - a lot of time was taken up by military personal and civil servants dealing with this issue. It was a distraction - we left people who faced almost certain death and that is what should have been the focus. If Boris Johnson contributed to this mess and confusion then that is a far worse action than any breaking of covid regulations

@twelly

Some of those people could have been on Pen's plane. That is what Pen Farthing himself wanted. To get as many people out as possible. And the military has already confirmed than none of their troops on the ground in Afghanistan were diverted to help Nowzad. I wonder how much time and resources evacuating all of those cars at the start of the evacuation effort took?

I think a lot of people care a lot about parties in no.10 given they went through the most heartbreaking times losing loved ones and not being with them or being able to have funerals and grieve properly.

I posted above about a man who lost his sister, his mother and his father in a 3 week period from covid, all whilst no.10 was partying. I just cannot begin to imagine what he feels

@DuncinToffee

Blatant lies. Nowzad had already sourced their plane before 25th August.

[quote Prescottdanni123]@DuncinToffee

Blatant lies. Nowzad had already sourced their plane before 25th August.[/quote]
How do you know? Any evidence of that?

@DuncinToffee

If you read the many comments on that particular post, you will see that while she stated that the PM was not involved in the sourcing of a plane. She began sticking her oar in becuase she wanted to put a film crew on the air craft because she believed that it would make for good television.

If Boris Johnson cared that much about the animals, he wouldn't have allowed the landing permit to be blocked for days would he? If he cared that much, Pen would not have been the last British man to leave Kabul airport. He and his animals left after the British army.

@Roussette

I think a lot of people care a lot about parties in no.10 given they went through the most heartbreaking times losing loved ones and not being with them or being able to have funerals and grieve properly.

I posted above about a man who lost his sister, his mother and his father in a 3 week period from covid, all whilst no.10 was partying. I just cannot begin to imagine what he feels

But Roussette both you and I know that grieving people often redirect their anger to other people . I remember walking down the street after my brother died. I was thinking why are these bloody people walking about and feeling so bloody happy when my brother is dead. The bereaved people cannot get their loved one back whether No 10 partied or not. I lost my brother in1994. The funeral was a blur but I have grieved for him every day since.

Kirsty Wark on Newsnight. Thank fuck for that.

The bereaved people cannot get their loved one back whether No 10 partied or not.

The point seems to have gone over your head.

They cannot get their loved ones back, but if Johnson had made people aware of all these loopholes - these work bubbles that could contain hundreds of people and any random friend or family member - perhaps they could have spent some time with their loved ones. Perhaps people suffering from severe mental health problems wouldn’t have been so isolated.

Either he was happily presiding over super spreader events or he was callously allowing people to endure real hardship, sometimes with tragic consequences, unnecessarily. There us no other option.

The bereaved people cannot get their loved one back whether No 10 partied or not. I lost my brother in1994. The funeral was a blur but I have grieved for him every day since.

Then I fail to see why you don't understand derxa. Johnson and pals, when the covid restrictions are over, can have as many parties as they like without breaking the law, but people who have lost loved ones can't get those funerals back to show their respects in the way that they would have wished to do. This might well mean that it's a constant reminder of the sort 'Oh yes, when I couldn't comfort my mother when my Dad passed away, Johnson and chums were having parties.'

@DuncinToffee

She has admitted it herself. She was acting on her own. PM wasn't involved. Admittedly, some people on twitter were hashtagging the PM when we wanted the gov to provide a landing permit, but that was after the 25th.

From the Twitter thread:

“Source at the company said Harrison was keen to get press on the plane to watch animals being evacuated to turn it into a good news story. They added she repeatedly talked about "the boss" and they felt it was obvious her requests came with his backing.”

Whatever the rights and wrongs of what the charity did, it’s very clear that there was a failure of leadership and staff’s time and influence should have been directed elsewhere.

@merrymouse

The bereaved people cannot get their loved one back whether No 10 partied or not.

The point seems to have gone over your head.

They cannot get their loved ones back, but if Johnson had made people aware of all these loopholes - these work bubbles that could contain hundreds of people and any random friend or family member - perhaps they could have spent some time with their loved ones. Perhaps people suffering from severe mental health problems wouldn’t have been so isolated.

Either he was happily presiding over super spreader events or he was callously allowing people to endure real hardship, sometimes with tragic consequences, unnecessarily. There us no other option.

My brother died at 32. I was 460 miles away when his life support was switched off. If I had been present at that event it wouldn't have changed a thing. People now seem to live in Disney world

She was acting on her own.

She seems to have believed this was a priority, which at best indicates absence of leadership.

@Peregrina

The bereaved people cannot get their loved one back whether No 10 partied or not. I lost my brother in1994. The funeral was a blur but I have grieved for him every day since.

Then I fail to see why you don't understand derxa. Johnson and pals, when the covid restrictions are over, can have as many parties as they like without breaking the law, but people who have lost loved ones can't get those funerals back to show their respects in the way that they would have wished to do. This might well mean that it's a constant reminder of the sort 'Oh yes, when I couldn't comfort my mother when my Dad passed away, Johnson and chums were having parties.'

A funeral is like a wedding. The beginning of a process.

People now seem to live in Disney world

What a crass thing to say, derxa. I was with my late DM when she passed away and was glad to be there. I missed my father's passing because I had been up all night sitting with him, my DB came to relieve me, and I nipped home to wash and get food. I feel said that I missed it. Both were old so it didn't cause the sorrow that a young person's death would, but I would have stayed an extra half hour had I known.

My brother died at 32. I was 460 miles away when his life support was switched off. If I had been present at that event it wouldn't have changed a thing. People now seem to live in Disney world

I’m sorry, but I think you are still misunderstanding. Close relatives were separated for months before death.