To think the NHS is screwed

[jaspercabbage]

Elderly relative had cancer related surgery before Christmas. The surgery went well but there has been no follow up appointment with an oncologist since. Recently they have taken ill again (clearly to do with the cancer) and have been to a&e four times in two weeks. They are treated for the sickness then sent on their way for the same thing to happen a few days later.

They were admitted again earlier in the week and have been stuck on a trolley, in a bay, in a&e for two nights now due to no beds in the hospital. This is an elderly person quite possibly now requiring end of life care and they can't even have their family with them. I just can't believe it's this bad.

I'm also due to have a baby later in the year, could be complications and to be honest I am shit scared about staff shortages and aftercare. What if something goes wrong in labour and there is nobody to deal with it at the time?

How can things have got to this point? The people are crying out for life going back to normal clearly haven't had to visit hospital lately. Although this is probably to do with a lot more than covid - underfunding, Brexit at so on.

Just a rant really but interested to hear other peoples thoughts.

@Iggly

I'm at the point where I'd welcome a fully funded model like in the US

The US model isn’t fully funded, what are you talking about.

And have you heard of the people that ended up bankrupt because they cannot afford health care?

There is no evidence that private healthcare is better.

When the nhs was properly funded, it was one of the best healthcare systems in the world.

The Tories, who have private healthcare friends, decided to under fund it with the aim of making it look worse.

They did the same with British Rail.

It’s so blatantly obvious.

Of course it's this.

I’ve worked in the NHS for over 30 years and I’m not sure that a fully state funded system is viable, given the changes in society and science.

Since the NHS began, so many changes have occurred.
People live longer.
The population has grown.
People have higher expectations.
Medical science has progressed.

Back in the 50s if you had a heart attack the doctor gave you morphine and the nurse held your hand and prayed with you. Now you get thousands of ££ of intensive treatment.
Conditions that used to be rapidly fatal can now be treated with tens of thousands of ££ drugs/surgery/ITU beds etc.
It’s fantastic that these developments have occurred, it really is. But this wasn’t what the NHS was banking on when it was first set up.

And it is massively abused. People now see NHS services in the same way that our ancestors saw neighbours/family. They turn to us for basic healthcare and lifestyle advice, when in the past they’d have had a cup of tea and a chat with grandma. Urgent 2-week-was cancer referrals aren’t enough now - they want to go to A&E for immediate service.

It’s basic economics really. If you open a cafe that only serves toast, and only at breakfast time, it’s pretty easy to buy enough bread to provide enough toast for everyone’s breakfast. But if you start providing lunch and dinner too, and a full range of food options, and have more people to feed - then you’ll need to spend a hell of a lot more money on ingredients, and you’ll need more people to do it. You can’t expect to run it on the same funds and the same model as the breakfast toast option.

I love the idea of the NHS, and having come from a background that couldn’t possibly afford private healthcare I’m supportive of the concept, but I’m not sure it can survive much longer in its current form.

@aristotlesdeathray

YANBU

I'm at the point where I'd welcome a fully funded model like in the US

Having had hospital treatment in both the U.K. and US it's far superior In every way possible

The NHS we all knew and loved is dead, time we move on

What utter rubbish - 'Fully funded'????? 'Time we move on'???? You're obviously alright jack.

I'm at the point where I'd welcome a fully funded model like in the US

This is exactly the attitude the Tories want you to have, don't be fooled. The NHS is the way it is through purposefully underfunding it, they want you to accept private health care is the only option.

It's bad enough people are struggling with food and energy bills, having to find the money for health care is not the way forward.

What @tfresh said on page 1 of the thread. The NHS was never designed to be used the way it is today and is unaffordable.

When the NHS was set up (1947/8?) life expectancy was 60 something, not 80 something. Expensive treatments for complicated conditions didn’t exist.

Sadly it is unaffordable and unsustainable. I think soon it will be pay for your own health care or only get very basic care.

@james85

My ideas for improvement would be: 1) Some tax increases, we can't afford much more. 2) Concentrate on real health conditions. I think they have stopped tattoo removal but should stop similar and some of the super expensive fertility treatments. 3) Stop funding for extremely expensive drugs where others are available. 4) Put the responsibility for life-style back to the individual. If people smoke, take drugs, alcohol or are grossly obese tell them to change their behaviour and come back next year. Get better managers and fewer of them.

Isn’t gross obesity a health issue in and of itself though? I’m morbidly obese (BMI 45), I’m currently going through lots of tests for physical health issues however my GP (and previous two GPs) haven’t ever told me my health problems are entirely my fault and to come back next year - you don’t get to a BMI of 45 purely off the back of eating too many McDonald’s, it often comes through trauma, bad/maladaptive coping mechanisms, mental health etc . In my case I started eating to block out CPTSD/developmental trauma . Trying to get any sort of prolonged NHS mental health help is a nightmare, took 25 years to get any and by that point I’d spent 25 years caring for myself in the only way I knew (i.e. binge/starve cycles) .

Telling me to go away, and we’ll find out next year if my symptoms are serious or not, how would that help? I certainly wouldn’t lose any weight - feeling that shit about yourself isn’t conducive to healthy eating !! and you’d potentially be missing serious illness that could be much worse in a year’s time .

I would argue the same for alcohol and drugs - if the NHS stop supporting those patients you’ll just end up with stacks of serious problems that could have been treated earlier .

As well as that you end up in the situation where you’re putting a judgement on people based on what you think is acceptable - I could argue that I looked after dozens of patients in motorbike accidents (I did, we saw one every 2 or 3 weeks at one point), therefore if you’re daft enough to jump on one knowing the risks should you land up in an accident, the NHS shouldn’t treat you because you made your choice .

The NHS is dead.A lot of people are adviced to get private GP consultation and treatment.This is completely unacceptable to pay National Insurance contribution AND then have to pay for private consultation.Most other countries have a far better health system.But unfortunately the Brexiteers and Flagwavers be rather dead than admitting Britain is running on empty.

The Tories have done this on purpose so they can make profits from it by privatising it. They are pure evil and are responsible for your relatives suffering. Strangely they keep winning elections so I can only assume most people enjoy suffering?

My personal and fairly recent experience of the NHS is that it isn’t very good at early intervention. A minor health issue has been ignored for a few years despite me pushing for help. The minor has now become more serious and needs far more treatment. Which has both a time and cost implication.

@Soontobe60

The vast majority of Americans manage it

We either need to strip it back and only offer emergency care as free at the point of service or move to a fully private model.

The NHS was never designed to operate how it is now, not without massive tax increases which will never happen

It wouldn't matter how much money was given to the NHS it would never be enough. We have a rapidly growing population, people are living longer, medical treatments are improving all the time which all needs more and more money.

Too many people abuse it and take it for granted.

@malmi

If you want a fully private model, there are private hospitals and clinics all over, so stick your hand in your wallet and go for it. The NHS does a good job with its limited budget. Look at the % of GDP we spend on healthcare compared to other countries and what we get for it.

And you think I don't?

Haven't used a shit hole, I mean NHS hospital for years

Doesn't mean I can't welcome a private model for the entire country at the same time

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Whilst I agree the Tories have done nothing for the nhs, did Labour do much better. The Blair years removed more beds and stuck in more middle managers than any other government

The Blair years also included a massive injection of cash which brought down the waiting lists very rapidly. Especially for cancer diagnosis and treatment. But also for routine appointments.

The biggest issue is not "NHS" funding, or what most people fixate on which is funding for medical treatment and hospital care. The biggest issue is funding in social care. Something like 15-25% of beds are currently taken up by people who are basically well, not medically ill, opr in need of medical attention, could be discharged, but don't have support plans in place for discharge.

Yes, absolutely fucked. Genereal practice too.

Vaccine mandates need to be scrapped asap.

It doesn't need to be an NHS or US model. There are other options - the French system works really well and has consistently better outcomes than the NHS.

@Intheopinionofourexpert

It doesn't need to be an NHS or US model. There are other options - the French system works really well and has consistently better outcomes than the NHS.

Indeed. In fact, any other European system. But then everyone throws their hands in the air, and de-crys the fact that you would have to pay to see your GP, or for an ambulance, or, now, to get an LFT etc etc.

Too many people, for too long, have become accustomed to the view that everything health related should be free. Going forward, it just can't.

@vivainsomnia

Having had hospital treatment in both the U.K. and US it's far superior In every way possible Yet I've met quite a few Americans living in the UK and all have praised the NHS and how they wish the US adopted a similar system.

It's great in the US if your organisation offer the golden level of cover or you can afford it. It cwrtaiy is not so great when you don't.

Exactly. That and your insurance is only accepted at certain clinics, it's not universal. I hear countless stories of people whose clinic suddenly stops accepting their insurance and the next nearest one is miles away, or their expensive prescription suddenly stops being covered and they struggle to get access to their crucial meds. DREAM of a system.

Only fools and horses. Look up the figures. Waiting lists, A and E waiting times hugely better. Many beds were removed as the government prioritised removing bedblockers by improving community care. All gone thanks to twelve years of austerity.

The reason people assume the US model, is that seems to be the way the government is leaning with its meetings and reports and the current system so it feels inevitable thats what will happen.

I'm at the point where I'd welcome a fully funded model like in the US

Fuuck me…can’t actually believe there’s people who think like this.

Not sure you’re referring to the same US where the unemployed and those in shit jobs don’t get their healthcare covered and it costs thousands to receive treatment..even for something like diabetes and many people can’t afford insulin.

Fuck off.

@MissyB1 no I'm not surprised, I've not been living under a rock, I'm aware of what's been happening but I think until you experience it yourself it's hard to fully grasp how bad things have become.

@Floundery- yes thats the current system and it is worse but i think its a stepping stone to something else not the final plan.