To think the NHS is screwed

[jaspercabbage]

Elderly relative had cancer related surgery before Christmas. The surgery went well but there has been no follow up appointment with an oncologist since. Recently they have taken ill again (clearly to do with the cancer) and have been to a&e four times in two weeks. They are treated for the sickness then sent on their way for the same thing to happen a few days later.

They were admitted again earlier in the week and have been stuck on a trolley, in a bay, in a&e for two nights now due to no beds in the hospital. This is an elderly person quite possibly now requiring end of life care and they can't even have their family with them. I just can't believe it's this bad.

I'm also due to have a baby later in the year, could be complications and to be honest I am shit scared about staff shortages and aftercare. What if something goes wrong in labour and there is nobody to deal with it at the time?

How can things have got to this point? The people are crying out for life going back to normal clearly haven't had to visit hospital lately. Although this is probably to do with a lot more than covid - underfunding, Brexit at so on.

Just a rant really but interested to hear other peoples thoughts.

The NHS is struggling. But as long as people keep voting for parties who continue to cut funding what do we expect?

It is still a million times better than a system where the rich are treated and the poor are left to die.

@aristotlesdeathray

YANBU

I'm at the point where I'd welcome a fully funded model like in the US

Having had hospital treatment in both the U.K. and US it's far superior In every way possible

The NHS we all knew and loved is dead, time we move on

That’s great if you’ve got the money to pay from private health insurance / health care. Most people haven’t.

If you want a fully private model, there are private hospitals and clinics all over, so stick your hand in your wallet and go for it. The NHS does a good job with its limited budget. Look at the % of GDP we spend on healthcare compared to other countries and what we get for it.

It’s absolutely on its knees. My sister gave birth recently alone, one midwife ran in and cut the cord a couple of minutes after baby was born and no other checks were done for nearly an hour after that. A cleaner sat with her while she was pushing as there was no staff. If she’s had any complications she could have very easily died. She was ringing her buzzer for half an hour, her husband was desperately running around the ward begging anyone to come and help, unaware that dsis had given birth.

I’ve been vomiting blood for a week. My local hospital can’t see me, GP advised if I turned up at A and E I’d be referred back to GP. He’s got me an appointment for an endoscopy next week at a hospital two counties and a 2.5 hour drive away as nowhere else can currently offer an emergency endoscopy.

The government are obviously deliberately underfunding the NHS and determined that it won’t survive. The problem is they are setting up no viable alternative, even if I had the money there is no one that I can see outside of London who can offer me the treatment I need. So many people are going to die before the government admit what they are doing.

@malmi have you tried accessing any of those hospitals or clinics if you live even vaguely rurally. I live in Devon, nowhere can offer me the treatment I need unless I go to London. I need to go up 48 hours before for Covid tests, all blood tests need to be done in London, I cannot leave my children for over a week for a routine operation that used to be done at my local hospital in an hour.

Having had hospital treatment in both the U.K. and US it's far superior In every way possible
Yet I've met quite a few Americans living in the UK and all have praised the NHS and how they wish the US adopted a similar system.

It's great in the US if your organisation offer the golden level of cover or you can afford it. It cwrtaiy is not so great when you don't.

Our experience in England over the past two years has been totally different. Diagnosed and treated initiated rapidly, excellent communication with oncologist and very happy with the wider MDT. Nothing but praise for the NHS. A far cry from our experience when my FIL was diagnosed in 2005 - an utter shambles from start to finish.

Whilst I agree the Tories have done nothing for the nhs, did Labour do much better. The Blair years removed more beds and stuck in more middle managers than any other government

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Whilst I agree the Tories have done nothing for the nhs, did Labour do much better. The Blair years removed more beds and stuck in more middle managers than any other government

Can you evidence that please?

The bit that people miss is as soon as you introduce a profit motif, that mean less money going to treatment.

It means that money comes first before outcomes.

I struggle to think of any sector which involves any kind of duty of care, where the private sector is better on a £ for £ basis.

And don't get me started on NHS dentists. Mine has decided to go private. Suddenly my family has no dental care and no chance of getting on another's books.

Iggly, there is an American nurse on social media saying how the hospitals she has worked in (agency) also have no beds for stroke victims, cancer patients etc. I think you are confusing your experience pre covid with the situation today.

Money isn't enough to fix it now, it needs a major overhaul. I am astounded anyone would be hoping for a model like the US though, there's a whole sea between what we have and what they have, many of which work much much better than both!

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Whilst I agree the Tories have done nothing for the nhs, did Labour do much better. The Blair years removed more beds and stuck in more middle managers than any other government

I'm not sure this is true. I am not saying Labour are perfect, or are a perfect solution, but the only reason the NHS is still going to the extent it is is because of the investment that took place during the blair-brown era.

@PossiblyDreaming I'm sorry to hear the specialism you need isn't available locally but private healthcare does exist in the SW we have friends who provide it in the s.Somerset / N Devon area.
There is the Nuffield private hospital in Exeter & Mount Stuart in Torquay as well as various other private clinics in the region.

I think the German public health insurance model is good- you do pay more but the quality of care is a lot better. Altogether 14% of your earnings go to social security - if you are employed you pay 7% of your earnings towards it and your employer pays the other 7% (and the full 14% is a deductible expense if you are self employed)

The healthcare is better here, I've found appointments have been easily available throughout the pandemic and they've solved medical issues for me which were not addressed in the UK (I was given tablets for the symptoms in the UK, in Germany they found the root problem).

The payments also go towards maternity/paternity leave up to 14 months, sick leave etc.

@tfresh

I don't think the NHS was ever designed to be used the way it is today. People go for everything, and people now live for a lot longer.

The concept of I've worked all my life so should get unlimited free care is certainly nice, but doesn't work financially.

Nor does paying continually for people who are making themselves sick - overweight, smokers, alcoholics, etc.

A serious discussion needs to happen about it, and it never will because it is political poison to do so.

This really is part of it. Misuse and abuse (along with underfunding of course) is seriously impacting upon services. I work in mental health and so many young ones come to us, they get admitted (when they really don't need to be but seem to know the buzz words to get admitted) and spend their time on the ward like a joke, making tik toks and treating it like it's a playground. Costing around 5k per bed per week. Taking funding from chronically mentally unwell people who now can't access services such as day centre becaus they've all closed due to lack of funding and can't see their CPNs as often as they really should, because funding is so poor that there aren't enough of them.

I'm not sure this is true. I am not saying Labour are perfect, or are a perfect solution, but the only reason the NHS is still going to the extent it is is because of the investment that took place during the blair-brown era oh believe me I’d much rather a Labour government than a Torie- I’m just pointing out the crumbling nhs isn’t just down to one party. Labour lost 26000 beds, Tories cut a further 17000

I was seen and treated quickly and efficiently during the labour years. Now they font even take rheumatology referrals for people with my condition.
The tories want a US model. Vote tory and vote away healthcare that won't bankrupt you if you get unlucky.

Population growth.
Aging population.
The demands of the population.
Extension of life at all costs.

As for underfunded, just how much money do you want other people to pay? Is the money that is already spent on the NHS used efficiently?

Let's not look at it rationally, let's just blame the Tories like we have for the last 40 plus years even though the NHS is still here.

Ps, if you think private provision has no place in the world, you need to get yourself to Specsavers.

@wonkylegs there are many private hospitals all over the countries but almost all of them offer a very basic set of options that people regularly pay to have done more quickly than on the NHS - hip replacements, hysterectomies, cataracts surgery, iron infusions etc and still a huge percentage of the time these are conditions that will have been diagnosed and referred via the NHS. If you need any kind of specialist care, and the care I need is really not unusual, you need to travel to London, Birmingham or Manchester. This is an procedure I used to have done on a regular basis at Torbay hospital, not a large hospital by any means, and I could be in and out in 2 hours. It’s a week if I have to go to London.

There are private hospitals but they can in no way offer the care required for anyone who is willing to pay. There are zero private A and E facilities, for example, in the whole country. It’s clear where the government is headed so they need to get on and encourage private surgeries to offer the treatments that they NHS is drowning in.

How can things have got to this point?
People keep voting Tory, that's how.

Private healthcare in this county is fine if you have a specific fixable problem. My DH needs knee surgery. Has work private health insurance he will have an operation within a month of it being recommended.

I have a child with chronic health problems. We have been bounced between departments on the nhs and no help provided. No one wants to take ownership for the case. We have tried to go private, but all the private doctors go, “ooh this is a bit complicated you better stay with nhs”.

As others have said the nhs needs a major overhauls. It is not just a case of throwing money it.

tfresh

I don't think the NHS was ever designed to be used the way it is today. People go for everything, and people now live for a lot longer.

Absolutely this-people attending A&E with a rash, kids just needing a plaster. Our local A&E childrens hospital looks like a kids playground even at 3am, with children clearly not needing to be there.
The impact of COVID is much greater than you know. Senior consultants have retired/GPs have retired. People are tired and fed up. Treat people better and pay them their worth and they will be better and want to stay.
The NHS has been breaking for a long time under successive governments-Tory and labour alike. It’s disingenuous to just blame the Tory’s-it’s deeper than that.

YANBU - the NHS isn’t fit for purpose!
The biggest problem is the total lack of accountability within the NHS which you don’t get in a private practice. I think the whole NHS model should have a complete overhaul.