To ask for ideas as to why nobody is hiring me?!

[GrumpyDirector]

Third sector, director level, 15 years experience. Strong CV and professional background (I think).

I’ve been applying for new jobs for about six months. I’m getting interviews with ease, and making it to the final interview (so, it comes down to two or three people) and I’m not getting the job. EVERY TIME.

I’m starting to lose my mind. I’m getting the interviews, so my applications are presumably good. I’m getting down to the final interview, so my interview technique is presumably good. All of the interview feedback is great (I keep not getting them by a ‘narrow margin’, allegedly), so not being given anything to work on.

So, what could it be?!! This has never happened to me before and it’s starting to make me feel rather shit. These are very high profile jobs and I understand that the competition is fierce, but it just happened for the tenth time! HELP!

I am not as senior as you but that's also been my experience over the past year or two. It's soul destroying to be number two or three each time.

Finally went back for another role at a company I'd applied to before and was successful that time - I think the previous practice did help with the interview as it wasn't dissimilar, so even if they WANTED someone else I did better on the day. Had to swallow my pride to apply there again of course.

the other candidate had a slight edge really isn't feedback, it's just saying "we wanted him not you". Could be more experience/better friends with existing board members/has tacitly been promised this job/just answered a bit better/we magically just feel this white dude is better than you but not for racist or sexist reasons honest guv. I'd push for something more concrete - even if they're not totally honest it should give you a hint.

Can't believe in 2022 we're having to hide our marital status or age because this shit is happening. It's so short sighted because people can and do go off for many reasons - two of my male colleagues have been on long-term sick leave for longer than any maternity leave. It's just plain old fashioned sexism that makes them see mat leave as a liability.

I’m unlikely to get older, whiter or more male anytime soon

and cheer up, you're getting older all the time

@BowerOfBramble

I’m unlikely to get older, whiter or more male anytime soon

and cheer up, you're getting older all the time

I dunno, can't we all identify as anything we want now?

@BowerOfBramble

I’m unlikely to get older, whiter or more male anytime soon

and cheer up, you're getting older all the time

😂

I'm not really seeing discrimination here.

How many applications have you made, versus interviews etc? It is possible that because you have gone up through the ranks quickly you underestimate how difficult getting a new role can actually be. People can put in dozens of applications for jobs they're qualified for and never get interviewed at all, the fact you're consistently reaching the final stages in a situation where you are younger and possibly less experienced for the role than their usual applicants suggests that yes you are impressive but just not quite there yet versus a different applicant. This happened to me - I found it so easy to skip up the lower levels that I was a bit shocked at consistently falling short for the next step up, whereas friends reminded me that I was experiencing what lots of others do when applying for any job, at any level.

I’ve applied for 12, got interviews for 10. Made it to the final interview in 9.

I see what you’re saying. It’s very possible that I have unrealistic expectations and I am genuinely open to everyone’s feedback, here. However galling it may be to my ego.

At early thirties at least half your 15 years experience is probably at a much more junior level.

If they are hiring older candidates its probably length of experience that is giving them the edge.

That said being early thirties without kids is a tough spot as everyone is going to assume you are going to go on mat leave at least once if not twice, in the near future.

It gets better immediately after you've had kids and the mat leave risk has gone

@Pedalpushers Sorry, forgot to tag you above.

I was going to say take off rings too. We shouldn't have to, but at least if you are senior you can influence the culture once you are in.

You are obviously doing very well OP to be in final interview 9/10.
It sounds like you meet all criteria so get through but at final hurdle when panel can chose off their gut feeling they go with alternative (who looks like them).
I’d look into a mentor. Is it worth getting coaching re presentation or even styling advice - if they are going to old white males wear the equivalent very formal boring suit.
I do horribly suspect it’s your age they think you are going to have 2 maternity leaves. It’s depressing. 25 years ago my female boss openly asked and avoided female candidates she thought were going to be having children. Good luck.

The female in 30s stigma really concerns me. I'm going through a recruitment process now and really torn between maintaining absolute secrecy about my personal life, therefore risking them 'filling in the blanks' themselves, or whether to drop into one of my answers that I'm post babies. That would mean disclosing my school aged children though.

[quote GrumpyDirector]@perimenofertility That’s a fair point, and I suppose it’s not one I can do very much about.[/quote]
To add (assuming you are going for promotions?) perhaps try a sideways move instead of upwards, so you get the same level of work but in a different area, that might help give you the edge. Good luck!

There’s a lot of unconscious bias during the interview stage of any job.
It’s so frustrating when the person typically hired fits the same mould.
Keep trying!

I was made redundant at 35 with a 1 year old. I was hired at a family-friendly company but I'm pretty sure if it happened again now at 37 with a 3 year old they'd assume I was already pregnant or trying for number 2. Frustrating, as DH has had the snip!

@MrsTophamHat

The female in 30s stigma really concerns me. I'm going through a recruitment process now and really torn between maintaining absolute secrecy about my personal life, therefore risking them 'filling in the blanks' themselves, or whether to drop into one of my answers that I'm post babies. That would mean disclosing my school aged children though.

I’m wondering the same thing and finding this thread is confirming all my worst fears. I’ve just turned 35 with a 1 and a 3 year old and looking for a new job. Do I mention the babies to show I’m done or pretend they don’t exist?!

I mentioned mine but that'a because I was looking for a part time position and I had to say that no, I wasn't in a position to change days/hours without notice.

I'm married and in my early 30s. I don't want children but it really worries me that for the next few years that's what will be on recruiter's minds.

@MrsTophamHat

When I was recruiting into senior roles post DC I was always explicit about the fact that I had them and how I managed. E.g.

“Yes I loved my last role, I covered emerging markets and as my DC are older I was really able to commit to travel/the hours/whatever and so grew in a way I couldn’t in the previous role. It’s now time for the next challenge”

Or something similar to make it clear this is not going to be an issue. Sucks but I haven’t not been offered a role since.

IDK about the third sector but are you sure you’re actually qualified for the role and not being interviewed for diversity quota?

This happens a lot to me (in tech), apparently‘diversity of pipeline’ is a thing even if you don’t get the job.

For two jobs that I interviewed for in my 30s, they found a way to approach me outside the building (just following you down for a cigarette break, just waiting to show you up) and asked about whether I was having children (I am not in the UK, btw) ...

In one case, she went into a lot of detail as to the other candidate was in her 50s and they'd had five women hired in the department in the last two years and all had gone on maternity leave, and she wanted me as the stronger candidate but the rest of the board was reluctant. My face was They offered me the job, but fortunately I'd got something else in the meantime as I really needed the money.

The thing is, in reality it is really really disruptive if you hire someone senior and they go promptly on maternity leave. It can shaft all the other colleagues as decent contractors at that level are impossible to find, and expensive.

If I was hiring I wouldn't have wanted myself 5 years ago either!

@OfstedOffred

The thing is, in reality it is really really disruptive if you hire someone senior and they go promptly on maternity leave. It can shaft all the other colleagues as decent contractors at that level are impossible to find, and expensive.

If I was hiring I wouldn't have wanted myself 5 years ago either!

They you're part of the problem aren't you.

Well done.

@OfstedOffred You cannot possibly be serious.

So, women of childbearing age should just opt out of the labour market altogether, then? Or stay away from senior roles until such a time as our menacing fecundity dissipates?

You’re in you’re 30s, you haven’t said if you intend to have children, they are going to assume you will which means time off for maternity, plus child related issues for the next possibly 20 yrs. There are many director level jobs that can cope with this any many that can’t, so they will play safe and appoint a man or woman that is less likely to have limitations to their time. If the job is going to mean meeting clients at fixed appointments, or managing staff day to day, they expect you to be there, not take a day off because a child is ill. On the other hand, if it’s finance or accounts that can be done from home it may not be an issue.

Don’t think they won’t know quite a lot about your personal
circumstances, they would know from your references and other easily available online research. At your age changing jobs is risky a friend who was a director, had a child, the company was taken over and she was made redundant, never did find an executive position again.

Put yourself in their shoes, would you choose a candidate that is likely to start a family and take extended leave soon after starting the job, or a candidate who is either male, or female with older children or none. It’s not about qualifications it’s about who can do the job best.

Ten interviews is great op. I find nobody gets back to you. I had one xmas week she said cv standard very good that came in. My colleague told me years ago the boss was sick of maternity covers that they were only back then gone again!!!