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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think he shouldn’t be charged with murder

202 replies

CovidCorvid · 24/01/2022 22:34

Story in the news today. A man is stabbing a woman to death in the street, people try and intervene and he’s waving a big knife about. A passing motorist rams him with a car and kills him. The driver has now been charged with murder. I get that people can’t take the law into his own hands but for all he knew it was a mad man/terrorist who might be about to start killing others. Never mind trying to save the life of the poor woman who died. Surely he can argue he didn’t have an intention to kill the man, but was just hoping to stop him.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/24/woman-stabbed-man-killed-hit-by-car-maida-vale-west-london

OP posts:
Thoosa · 25/01/2022 00:31

The stabbing victim apparently also got dragged under the car and crushed.

If he accidentally killed both the victim and the perpetrator, that’s a bit more complicated.

I expect the post mortem on the poor woman is being awaited, which will establish whether the stab wounds, or being run over caused her death, or both contributed.

It’s fairly obvious how that could influence any charges against the driver.

Freecuthbert · 25/01/2022 00:52

Gosh, some of the posters on this thread. Of course you can defend yourself or someone else from a person on a bloody rampage! It's not vigilante justice, it is acting in the moment to try and save a life! Those who think it would be right for this man to be charged with murder, I take it if you were being stabbed in the street you wouldn't want the public to try and stop it with any means necessary? It's not like the police will get there in time to be able to stop it. It is indeed sad this woman has lost her life regardless, but the man tried, and has potentially saved other people's lives as it's likely others could have been stabbed.

Of course I know this man has been arrested, not charged. But it's just part of the investigation and I cannot see him being charged for anything.

oakleaffy · 25/01/2022 01:42

Give the man a medal!
He potentially saved many lives.

Anyone waving a knife around is a danger, and the driver took the danger out, he probably didn't mean to kill the man, but to stop harm to others.
Good for him.

Ellowyn · 25/01/2022 02:36

@CovidCorvid

Personally I think he should be given a medal. Trying to save someone’s life, had a split second to make a decision. 🤷‍♀️
I agree with this. He would be charged here!
roses2 · 25/01/2022 02:42

I hope its true he can't be charged. Poor guy was just trying to stop a crazy knife man. And poor lady.

alexdgr8 · 25/01/2022 02:46

we shouldn't be discussing a live case.

TooBigForMyBoots · 25/01/2022 02:47

None of us were there. None of us know what happened. Why the fuck is anyone talking about giving "medals"?🤯

Twocrabs30 · 25/01/2022 02:57

It’s a starting point.
I doubt, once all the evidence Is obtained, witness statements taken from those in the immediate vicinity, and the public interest considered, together with representations considered from the defendants lawyers, that the driver will remain with any charges against him.
Where is the public interest?
And I doubt a jury would be likely to convict either.

parchedjanuary · 25/01/2022 03:07

The police officer in the article asked the public to please not speculate. (I guess it could jeopardise a potential trial 🤷🏻‍♀️)

FireMeetGasoline · 25/01/2022 03:11

I'm so glad he pleaded for help as he was taking his last breath. I hope he was in extreme agony. I'm also glad that 92% of people don't think YABU.

I hope the driver is not sentenced for murder. I can't actually believe that there are people on mumsnet who are suggesting the driver did wrong. They saw someone being viciously attacked by a knife wielding lunatic and intervened. To those who vilify this person, what would you have done? Got out your phone and started filming?

Twocrabs30 · 25/01/2022 03:14

@alexdgr8
Genuinely curious, why do you say this?

It’s not like we are on the jury. Even if there is much speculation, it does appear to raise public interest issues

AlternativePerspective · 25/01/2022 03:20

Amazing that so many people are apparently in possession of the full facts and feel at liberty to hand out medals on the basis of something they know absolutely nothing about other than the speculation read in the press and social media, you know, those paragons of truth. Hmm.

There are so many potential factors here. The woman he was allegedly trying to save also died, and it is not yet known how. If she died because of being run over by him then this will complicate matters.

We don’t know the stabber wasn’t known to the man.

We don’t know the potential mental state of the stabber. If for instance he was suffering from a mental episode while his actions should not be excused they would be more easily mitigated on the basis of diminished responsibility.

The law states that you can use “reasonable force” in terms of self defence. In this instance there were multiple people on the pavement. It was possible that he could have hit others in his quest to kill the man.

It’s not unlike a burglary where someone kills the burglar in self defence. If you e.g. happen upon a burglar in your kitchen and pick up a knife from the side and stab him and he dies, then that is reasonable force. if you keep a knife under your pillow and stab him with the knife meant for such a purpose, then it is not, and you would likely be charged and possibly convicted.

But we don’t know any of it. And it’s not up to any of us to decide what should or shouldn’t happen. And while this might not be considered vigilante justice, it’s a slippery slope towards condoning vigilante justice if we decide that this was justified based on the attacker’s actions.

AlternativePerspective · 25/01/2022 03:22

It’s not like we are on the jury. Even if there is much speculation, it does appear to raise public interest issues but for all you know you could be selected to be on the jury. OR anyone selected could have been reading the speculation on social media and decide accordingly without taking note of the actual facts.

FireMeetGasoline · 25/01/2022 03:25

23:39WorstXmasEver

You can't just run people over because you think they're comitting a serious crime. I can't help feeling the driver has been really dumb.

You fucking what? If someone is stabbing in the chest repeatedly, I hope someone drives their car into the fucking prick, even if it finishes me off.

What an awful situation for the victim, but so glad the perpetrator also died in agony.

MimiDaisy11 · 25/01/2022 03:25

It does say in the article: Her jacket was caught under the car so it may be more complicated than it seems if he also struck victim.

That said I doubt he’ll be charged with murder if he was trying to stop attack, especially as no jury would convict.

I also don’t get the vigilante comments. There’s a big difference in running over someone as they attack another person versus tracking down someone and running them over after they attacked someone earlier in the day.

parchedjanuary · 25/01/2022 03:30

@Twocrabs30 we don't know if we are on the jury yet. If it goes to a trial, that will be a little while away.

NoRaceInThisHorse · 25/01/2022 03:34

It doesn't say he's been charged with anything. Police have arrested and will investigate the circumstances accordingly.
Or perhaps you would like the police just to shake his hand, let him go and not bother to established what the actual circumstances are?

FireMeetGasoline · 25/01/2022 03:35

Don't even get what is wrong with vigilantes tbh. If our laws and judiciary don't give these bastards a deserving penalty, no wonder we have vigilantes. I see them as Angels if I'm being completely honest. Those who disagree, wait until something horrendous and abhorrent happens to you or your loved ones. You might not throw the 'There can not be emotion in law' card around so frivously.

Twocrabs30 · 25/01/2022 03:39

@parchedjanuary
With close to 50m adults in the UK, the chances of anyone of us being selected to be one of 12 jurors are pretty remote. And it would be fairly simple to declare you have expressed pre-conceived thoughts about this case or might be biased from what you have read, and be moved to one of the other thousands of trials needing jury members.

wombat1a · 25/01/2022 03:40

Arrest
Investigate
Let CPS decide if it is in the public's interest to charge them with a crime

...
Give him a medal and get his car fixed for free.

Twocrabs30 · 25/01/2022 03:42

From what I understand from the very early reports:

Male is observed by many witnesses, and apparently a driver, stabbing to death a women. A driver runs over the knife man who was killing the woman. Knife man dies.

Frankly, I am not going to lose sleep over this, or if no charges are pressed against the driver.

Twocrabs30 · 25/01/2022 03:45

Well I will lose sleep over the poor woman dying. I am sick of these continuing reports. Beyond sick.

The death of the knife man on the other hand…

Happyhappyday · 25/01/2022 04:14

This is how people justify owning guns in America (I am American). Killing a person who killed or threatened to harm someone doesn’t make it any better. A car is a deadly weapon too.

NoRaceInThisHorse · 25/01/2022 04:21

@FireMeetGasoline

Don't even get what is wrong with vigilantes tbh. If our laws and judiciary don't give these bastards a deserving penalty, no wonder we have vigilantes. I see them as Angels if I'm being completely honest. Those who disagree, wait until something horrendous and abhorrent happens to you or your loved ones. You might not throw the 'There can not be emotion in law' card around so frivously.
I can tell you that there was a gang of vigilantes in my town who murdered a pedophile. Wonderful, eh? Only they "got" the wrong man and could have risked the due process of law of the "right" one due to their actions.
Twocrabs30 · 25/01/2022 04:27

@Happyhappyday

However I doubt that the driver intended to kill the knife man; but an attempt to stop him in his tracks, and to protect the female victim.
And I doubt his actions were premeditated, like in the paedophile example.

I don’t think it is an appropriate or reasonable comparison between vigilantes which are being referred to and the driver of this incident

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