To think he shouldn’t be charged with murder

[CovidCorvid]

Story in the news today. A man is stabbing a woman to death in the street, people try and intervene and he’s waving a big knife about. A passing motorist rams him with a car and kills him. The driver has now been charged with murder. I get that people can’t take the law into his own hands but for all he knew it was a mad man/terrorist who might be about to start killing others. Never mind trying to save the life of the poor woman who died. Surely he can argue he didn’t have an intention to kill the man, but was just hoping to stop him.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/24/woman-stabbed-man-killed-hit-by-car-maida-vale-west-london

[notordinary]

Wtf! Hes a hero!

[JuneOsborne]

It is the job of the police to investigate.

They turn up, there are 2 dead people, one of whom is under a car.

I think the legal issue isgoing to hinge on the word reasonable. Did he use reasonable force? I don't think many people (as seen in this thread) would say he used unreasonable force, but are the police and Cps likely to agree or disagree with the interpretation of reasonable. That's the question.

[Foreverlexicon]

@Alexandra2001
Arrest provides powers to police they might not otherwise have I.e house searches, searching the vehicle, mobile phone seizures etc as well as preserving evidence. There’s numerous reasons why someone might be arrested, it’s generally not because officers fancy throwing their weight around.

[Dubgirl1212]

YANBU, he should not be charged.

[Whatwhywhenwhere]

In the first place it would be manslaughter- no premeditation. In the second place, a split second decision made in the heat of the moment to try to prevent someone else being killed- temporary insanity? In the US he would not be charged, due to their laws being slightly different. There is also “Not in the public interest “ to charge, not sure if they can do it in this case. It is the message it sends:- don’t step in and try to save someone in case you yourself get prosecuted.

So, no- I don’t think he should go to jail for trying to save someone’s life.

[Flowers500]

@Whatwhywhenwhere

In the first place it would be manslaughter- no premeditation. In the second place, a split second decision made in the heat of the moment to try to prevent someone else being killed- temporary insanity? In the US he would not be charged, due to their laws being slightly different. There is also “Not in the public interest “ to charge, not sure if they can do it in this case. It is the message it sends:- don’t step in and try to save someone in case you yourself get prosecuted.

So, no- I don’t think he should go to jail for trying to save someone’s life.

That’s not the law, you’re getting a lot of issues wrong.

It doesn’t have to be a planned murder to be murder, it being unplanned doesn’t necessarily make it voluntary manslaughter. You’d need to show a mental condition that caused it (eg ptsd) or show you had a “qualifying trigger” that made you lose control. It’s essentially a partial defence to murder.

Insanity requires you to be, well, insane! Responding rationally during a murder to stop it is not evidence on insanity.

As said unthread, self defence is a FULL defence to murder. This means no crime at all, he would not be charged unless he acted unreasonably in the circumstances, plus margin of error due to heat of moment.

[Flowers500]

Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human being with intent to kill or cause GNH. A common law defence of self defence means there is no unlawful killing, ergo no murder, no need to try to lower a charge to voluntary manslaughter

[MooSakah]

They'll investigate and sort it out

[Whatwhywhenwhere]

Flowers 500 thankyou. Ultimately, regardless of how we feel morally, the letter of the law has to be upheld and the evidence processed.

So, on a personal level I can empathise with the actions of the car driver, legally he has run someone over and will have to deal with the consequences. There is discretion around sentencing, also vehicular crimes tend to carry a lower sentence. I am sure this man meant to stop the person stabbing the woman, not kill.

[nonono1]

Totally agree OP. He was trying to save that poor woman’s life!

[AiryFairyLights]

@CovidCorvid

Personally I think he should be given a medal. Trying to save someone’s life, had a split second to make a decision. 🤷‍♀️

Yes but how do you KNOW that’s what the case is here? Until such time as the police have ask the facts of course he should be arrested. He hasn’t been charged as yet and I’m sure all facts will be taken into account when he is!
Most likely it’ll be a manslaughter charge and the circumstances taken into account when it comes to judgment and sentencing!

[ancientgran]

I think the trouble with this sort of thing is what if you misunderstand what you see. What if the woman had the knife, the man was trying to get it off her, he succeeds just as a passing car sees two people fighting, blood, man with knife and kills the man who was being attacked?

[overthehillandsofaraway]

The whole thing is very sad.

Whatever the truth is held to be, someone has taken at least one life (the victim might not survived anyway due to the multiple stab wounds). Whether or not it was the right thing to do (we weren't there), that's still a heavy thing to have to carry for the rest of the driver's life.

[legendyna]

@WorstXmasEver

You can't just run people over because you think they're comitting a serious crime. I can't help feeling the driver has been really dumb.

YES you can if they are literally commuting murder. You can defend another persons life.

The only problem for this man is he may have hit the victim and killed her too

[MummyWoodentop]

OMG -poor witnesses - this would haunt you forever

[user313213521]

Incredible how this man has been arrested for murder (if only so it can be investigated properly) and yet there's many many many cases where a driver runs over and kills a cyclist and isn't arrested for any offence whatsoever.

[aristotlesdeathray]

He wasn't charged with murder

He has been arrested

Not charged, or convicted

Your ignorance is the issue here, not the polices conduct

[james85]

At this moment you are being Very U.
Give it time for the facts to come out. The police have opportunities to investigate and establish facts. Decisions will come later.
One of the reasons the law is against those who take the law into their own hands is about setting someone up to do something minor against you, arguing and pushing you for instance, then attacking them violently causing major injury and excusing it as "he started it".

[Whatwhywhenwhere]

You also have to think of the message you want to send- if people decide NOT to step in to prevent a murder due to the potential risks to themselves; would this be of benefit to society? In the US, people won’t save lives in case they get sued and that is the outcome of many similar situations. The UK isn’t as litigious but if you risk jail for attempting to help then you don’t want to take that risk.

[ICanTuckMyBoobsInMyPockets]

It says he's been arrested, which they have to do to take anything he says to police into account for a charging decision.

It doesn't say anywhere that he's been charged.

[AtillatheHun]

He can be charged and taken to trial but the cops will struggle to find a jury prepared to convict. Given they can’t just allow people to go around driving into others, I guess he will be charged for dangerous motoring offences where they’re more likely to get a conviction (tho’ of course he can still request a jury trial)

[bookworm14]

This happened yards from my DD’s school. It took place in broad daylight, during school run time, in front of a number of witnesses who will now be traumatised. The whole community is still in shock. Can we just let the police do their jobs and investigate before we turn it into a debate about heroism, self defence, over zealous policing, knife crime, or whatever else people want to get onto their hobby horses about?

[Pritty]

Well I'd hope that he won't be charged with murder but I can understand being arrested. It gives the police the opportunity to investigate properly which needs to happen when someone is killed by another. It doesn't mean he's been handed a life prison sentence.

[Lockheart]

@bookworm14

This happened yards from my DD’s school. It took place in broad daylight, during school run time, in front of a number of witnesses who will now be traumatised. The whole community is still in shock. Can we just let the police do their jobs and investigate before we turn it into a debate about heroism, self defence, over zealous policing, knife crime, or whatever else people want to get onto their hobby horses about?

You'd think, but it's amazing the amount of the general public there are who have this astonishing ability to know exactly what happened, despite not being there, and for whom due process is irrelevant. Imagine how much better our police and judicial systems would be if all these people applied their powers for good instead of sounding off on a forum

[AtillatheHun]

I can imagine everyone is very upset locally. I lived there when Learko Chindarmo stabbed and killed the headmaster. That caused a huge amount of public debate, hobby horsing and discourse which was incredibly helpful on human rights, knife crime, school metal detectors and many other issues.