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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to find it a bit annoying my mil gave dds golliwogs for christmas?

184 replies

mrsshackleton · 28/12/2007 15:30

Mil is very right wing and hates all political correctness so among other things has presented my two dds with two gollys.She says they're not golliwogs they're jolly gollys and every child loves them, which of course the dds do. We're staying with her in the country now and I am saying to dh there is no way we can take them back to London as we will offend our friends having them lying round the house. He says if we don't take them, mil will be upset (she will). What do other mnetters think? I can see that a black doll on its own isn't intrinsically offensive but I also think it has connotations that could upset people and I know my mil has given them to be deliberately provocative. Ah, merry christmas every one!

OP posts:
MorocconOil · 30/12/2007 23:37

Have only read the OP but feel very, very strongly that this kind of toy is wrong, and you should explain to your MIL that you do not want them and she should take them back to the shop! If she doesn't then you should!

Cashncarry · 30/12/2007 23:42

Kinder, people do still use the word "darkie" unfortunately. in fact it's mild in comparison really...

Aitch - agree, you would have thought that once several people had stood up and said "yes, I find that offensive" and given reasons that people would just accept that it is offensive. I'm not having a go at the other posters who don't agree - I just really can't understand what's to be gained by sticking up for something just because it's a toy!

Aitch · 31/12/2007 00:06

i know, so we lose a dodgy toy to history... so bloody what? [baffled]

MarsyChristmas · 31/12/2007 01:01

I have to confess I'm not really at all shocked that people think we're being oversensitive. I'm saddened, but not shocked!

So for those that are happy to continue with golliwogs after reading about their history, reading about why they are offensive and that some of us are "oversensitive" about them.. well... I leave you to you. I meet people like you every day and it tires me. If you cannot see the offence (and please don't say... the children don't see it... you do! Take responsibility and guide your child)... then know that for you ignorance might be bliss but it isn't for the rest of us that have to live with it!

Cashncarry · 31/12/2007 01:37

To all those who think "gollies" are just fine - I suppose it is silly of us to whine on about how offensive it is because obviously history over-rules common sense and common courtesy

Wish I could be as dignified as Mars and say it doesn't bother me but it sooo does so yaboo-sucks to you lot who think the OP is UR

Mommalove · 31/12/2007 01:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

kindersurprise · 31/12/2007 07:38

Well said, Mars!

seeker · 31/12/2007 08:01

And it's not as if there aren't any other toys available!

Even if I didn't think gollies were offensive myself (which I do) if I had a choice between giving my child a toy that might upset someone and a toy that wouldn't then I would give the toy that wouldn't. No brainer, really!

I'm always amused by the "it's political correctness gone mad" brigade. If you challenge them to tell you one thing that they feel they can no longer do or say because of "political correctness", it always turns out that either they can't think of anything or it's something sexist, racist or homophobic that they shouldn't have been doing or saying anyway!

Pan · 31/12/2007 09:23

yep, seeker.

for "pc gone mad" read "I really couldn't be bothered thinking too much about this, and to be sensitive toward others for more than 5 secs. is frankly more than I have. I do get quite defensive about my personal beliefs being challenged, I am a slow, inflexible learner. My thinking styles are restrictive and narrow, and as a consequence I have a habit of 'labelling' anything that I don't immediately understand, and once I have labelled a thing it is a very difficult to shift my mental label of it. I feel threatened quite easily and so rarely leave my comfort zone. Once anything comes up that requires patience, the use of empathy and effort, I usually rely on my trusted label "pc gone mad". It doesn't help any analysis but is useful in stopping me having to think about things any further."

or something like that.

Am a bit surprised that the gollies were accepted at all if MIL is such a bigot and is prepared to use children in her little wars of provocation.

MilkMonitor · 31/12/2007 09:35

Pan - great post.

Southeastra - I'm still of the view that whatever the era, being racist (and other horrors) is inexcusable. Easy to say in 2007 but not in 1946? Thousands fought against the racism against the Jews in the WWII, for example. Not just soldiers, I mean. It's such a cop out to say, "Ah well, that's what people did/said at the time."

southeastastra · 31/12/2007 10:45

well i can't speak for them but don't think they did see it as racist. i'd ask my mum but she's not here anymore.

seeker · 31/12/2007 10:55

The point is that in our parent's time they were not perceived as racist - but they are now. So there is no need to defend our parents - but also the gollies should be consigned to the history books.

WinkyWinkola · 31/12/2007 11:00

Weren't perceived as racist by whom? I'm sure there were plenty of black people who felt caricatures of them were racist.

You don't have to be consciously racist to be racist.

FairyMum · 31/12/2007 11:03

That's a great post Pan!

lilmissmummy · 31/12/2007 11:43

dd daughter got a golly for Christmas and despite how much I loved mine as a child, dd has already "lost" her golly as I understand the offensive ideals behind the doll and do not wish any of those ideas to be forced either consiously or subconciously onto my daughter.

We live in a multi-cultural society and I believe that people should be judged as individuals not because of the colour of their skin or their accent or their religion. Images such as the golly should be used as a learning curve to show just how far we have come...

seeker · 31/12/2007 19:48

WinkyWinkola - I meant not perceived as racist by people like Southeastra's mother. There is NO excuse nowadays not to understand the offence things like this cause, but in earlier times, people were unaware and therefore less culpable.

newnamefornewyearbookwormmum · 01/01/2008 17:15

I saw a woman yesterday wearing a hand-knitted sleeve-less jumper (like a gilet without the zip) with a golly figure on the back. I must admit I wondered if she had it on back to front at the same time as being horrified that she was wearing it.

TartWithAHeart · 01/01/2008 17:31

Historically these are offensive toys and belong to a different era when it was OK to mock difference or to believe that certain races were superior to others.

Toys such as these, I feel do not have a place in today's multicultural society. The term "wog" actually derived from the toy "golliwog".

Lose the toys if you can. No matter how much one tries to rationalise it as I have seen in some posts above - they are offensive now in the 21st century. Whatever next? Minuture dollies dressed in Klu Klux Clan outfits?

fortyplus · 01/01/2008 20:25

Too right. What we sometimes forget is that the Victorians really genuinely believed that black people were far closer to apes than white people - and that white people had evolved to a greater extent.

Hopefully we've moved a long way since then.

themildmanneredjanitor · 01/01/2008 20:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
mrsshackleton · 01/01/2008 20:43

Blimey, haven't looked at mn for a few days as with dreaded in laws, I didn't realise this had kicked off such a stir
FWIW I think my mil had a golly as a child, loved it and doesn't understand why things are not the same today. It is interesting, she is from Aberdeen, has never really met a black person and her attitude is I genuinely think one of ignorance (which I know you can say is no excuse) than outright hostility. She's always saying things like so-and-so is a "foreigner" because they're, say,from an Indian family, and when I say no they're not foreign they were born here, you can see her mind wheels clicking as she takes in that idea. She is bloody annoying in this and many other respects but so are so many mils, what can you do
Having a fully fledged showdown with her about the bloody gollies, however, is simply not worth it, I have a lot of crap on my plate right now, feel ill and exhausted, and it would achieve nothing except a lingering feud.
But the majority of people on here agree with my instinct which was to bin the dolls. We got back today, I've hidden them where dds won't find them and the next time I go out alone they will find themselves in a dustbin and if mil ever asks where they are I shall shrug innocently.

OP posts:
EzrasMummy · 01/01/2008 21:50

I have skimmed over the past few comments and i just wanted to give my opinion. As a black person of African parentage, I would find these dolls offensive. As one of the other posters said, they refer back to the days of the minstrels which were there to make fun of the black people back in the day.

I would NEVER give any doll to my child that offends another people, be it women, black, white, large, skinny, etc. And if my child was in posession of such a toy, i would get rid of it. Even if my mother in law gave it to me.

Of course, children are innocent in these matters, but as they get older, the questions will come and they need to know that these "toys" are offensive to a certain group of people.

At the end of the day, it is our job as parents to guide our children as best we can. Personally i think its a sad state of affairs that the original poster was "annoyed". Id be shocked and upset, especially in this day and age. Im not here to say what is right and what is wrong and of course, we all have the free will to do as we please with regards to our children.

TheIceQueen · 01/01/2008 21:53

We have mixed raced children and I'm sat here with a very large golly grinning from ear to ear at me from the sofabed in the study!!!

So no I wouldn't have found it annoying....especially as it was my (black) DH's MIL (ie my mum) who gave it to us - and it was DH that put it on the sofa bed in full view......

MrsFlora · 01/01/2008 21:59

whoever said that gollies origins are bad is talking crap..

i would suggest you read a book by Clinton Derricks about the history of Gollies....

Phatmouse · 01/01/2008 22:05

I had one and my mum just got my daughter one and she is an elected councillor in a prodominently black and asian area. I am sick of being made to feel like a member of the white wolves, I am not racist and do not intend for my daughter to be one either. Years ago I shouted loudly to a coloured man with an afro 'look mum he looks just like my golly' my mum was mortified and he though it was hilarious. What boils me is that its white people they offend, I have yet to meet a muslin who wants to cancel christmas but have met serveral socialist teachers who want to cancel the nativity in case it offends them.