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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to find it a bit annoying my mil gave dds golliwogs for christmas?

184 replies

mrsshackleton · 28/12/2007 15:30

Mil is very right wing and hates all political correctness so among other things has presented my two dds with two gollys.She says they're not golliwogs they're jolly gollys and every child loves them, which of course the dds do. We're staying with her in the country now and I am saying to dh there is no way we can take them back to London as we will offend our friends having them lying round the house. He says if we don't take them, mil will be upset (she will). What do other mnetters think? I can see that a black doll on its own isn't intrinsically offensive but I also think it has connotations that could upset people and I know my mil has given them to be deliberately provocative. Ah, merry christmas every one!

OP posts:
TheQueenSPeach · 28/12/2007 23:37

Agree that the dolls in themselves aren't racist. It's just a black doll in gaudy clothing. But then, when you know the context, it's difficult to disassociate the ideas.

Yes, I think your MIL is being provocative and therefore annoying. But I'd be tempted to try and talk to your friends in London rather than just assuming you'll annoy them. So long as they know you're sceptical, could make an interesting conversation, and they may see your dilemma.

KTNoo · 28/12/2007 23:43

Obviously it's up to you what you do with them, but, how do you know how people would react to them?

I live in Holland where the St Nicholas tradition involves lots very un-pc black make-up for all the saints' helpers (black peters). At my kids' school there were people of all different races there - some looked bemused at this bizarre tradition but I asked various people and they all said they did NOT find it offensive.

Nightynight · 28/12/2007 23:44

my children dont have them and I would feel uncomfortable. Gollies are based on a stereotype, not like a black baby doll, for example.
I'd stash them in the loft I think.

Blu · 28/12/2007 23:46

Whatever anyone else thinks, I wouldn't feel happy giving DS a toy based on a hideous and deeply ofensive stereotype and origin.

revgreen · 28/12/2007 23:47

But black peter is black because he lives in a coal mine-hence a lump of coal for naughty children at Christmas. Golliwogs are a piss take of black people. Its just not the same thing.

Mommalove · 28/12/2007 23:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

KTNoo · 28/12/2007 23:57

Revgreen, that's what they tell the kids but acutally black peter is based on Moroccan slaves, St. Nicholas coming from Spain and all that....

LadyOfTheHollyAndTheIvy · 29/12/2007 00:06

Bleeding heck!
I had a golly my nan knitted for me and iloved mine too!
I know you are supposed to call them 'gollies' now rather than 'golliwogs' but I didn't know there are/have been campaigns against them.

Blu · 29/12/2007 00:12

I had one - and a full set of Robertson's badges that a lady down the road saved tokens for, for me.

kindersurprise · 29/12/2007 00:17

KTNoo
We were in Holland at the beginning of the month, at Centerparcs and I was quite taken aback at the whole Schwarzerpeter thing. You could not imagine that tradition in PC Britain .

The kids enjoyed it though, lots of sweeties being chucked about.

EddieMonsoon · 29/12/2007 00:27

Just have a look at the link in the post from kindersurprise on page 1 of this thread. When I was young I also collected Robinson gollies. Its different when you know the origin though. Knowing what they stand for removes the childish innocence and lets us see how abhorrent they are.

QueenBhannae · 29/12/2007 00:34

I am mixed race and as a child colleted golly badges from Robertson's jam with my great Nana.I was, as I am sure your children will be, blissfully unaware of the connotations.

My children have black,white and asian dolls to play with and do not readily distinguish between them.
We are fortunate to be of a very mixed immediate family though,my dd has an Irish father,Thai stepmother,Italian stepfather and myself,jamaica/english mix lol.

In my opinion, if they have been given to provoke a reaction,leave them there with her and make it clear you will not tolerate her behaviour.
If they have been given lovingly then it is up to you to decide if your children play with them or not.
I cannot keep up with what is deemed racist and what is not nowadays.I used to refer to myself as half-caste but apparently that is a no-no now?

Quattrocento · 29/12/2007 00:40

Lose the golliwogs. Think it's an absolute outrage in this day and age.

Is it possible to lose the MIL as well?

LoveAngelGabriel · 29/12/2007 08:14

Personally, I do find Golliwogs offensive, and I would definitely think differently of a friend who let their children play with them. Just being honest.

dejags · 29/12/2007 08:22

Haven't read the whole thread, but surely a doll cannot be rascist.

It's owner is or isn't the rascist (as it may or may not be).

PC gone mad if you ask me.

BTW - in South Africa, there is a little shop in the CT Waterfront which sells an African doll called Unodoli. They come in all makes and sexes and dressed in traditional african clothes. Pretty much positive they wouldn't be classified as rascist - what's the difference between this and a golly?

LoveAngelGabriel · 29/12/2007 08:59

Most people of colour who grew up in the UK in the 1960s or 70s black will tell you that they find golliwogs offensive. The connotations, if you bother to look into it, are dreadful. As a child, my husband (the only black child in his London primary school) was cast as 'The Golliwiog' in his school play. I doubt he would think it is 'PC gone mad' to say that these dolls have strong and sinister connotations for many people. Yes, a golliwog is 'just a doll', like 'Black Sambo' was just a story for kids and 'nigger' is 'just a word'.

LoveAngelGabriel · 29/12/2007 09:00

ignore word 'black' after 1970s bit...changed my sentence and forgot to take it out!

sophiewd · 29/12/2007 09:11

My DD has a gollywog, my friend who is black thinks they are fantastic and misses hers, her friend who is also black can't see what the fuss is about. They are sold in a local shop, they have had complaints form white people but have sold most to coloured people.

gibberish · 29/12/2007 09:20

Dejags, the difference is that these are not just dolls created to show cultural diversity. The history of gollywogs shows that they were seen as a laughable stereotype of black people - portraying them as minstrels, slaves or clowns and often portrayed as being wicked, frightening or stupid. Have a read of this What Enid Blyton wrote about them in her books is shocking. Should we try to hide or make those kind of views more acceptable by slightly changing the name of these dolls so that they can continue to be sold? The change of name doesn't change the disturbing connotations, even if some have forgotten what they are. Am actually very surprised these are still being sold.

Mrsshackleton I would say that, knowing that others will be offended, you should trust your instincts and 'lose' them.

auntymandy · 29/12/2007 09:24

I would lone a golly... all unwanted ones send this way!!

Tortington · 29/12/2007 09:27

i love gollys i had a 3 foot one that talked when i ws a child - i became aware as an adult that it was unpc to have them and they all dissapeared from sight from the shops etc. but i was never sure why really i think if some one judged my whole stance on racial issues becuase i had one then fuck them for not getting to know me

cherryredretrochick · 29/12/2007 09:31

My mum bought golly dollies for my dds not long ago, I was quite uncomfortable with it butmy mum was only reminising from the golly badges my dad collected on his jacket when we were kids. And at the time people ( well certainly my parents) were not actually aware of the connotations of the image. (ffs my mum thought boy george was a girl) Anyway the girls don't really play with them much so I put them away if anybody is coming round, the children have no idea what these dolls mean.

lazarou · 29/12/2007 09:44

I think my grans got lods of the badges and a doll in her house somewhere. I remember playing with the doll when i was little and tbh it was just another doll to me.
They are probably a valuable collector item though now, so hold onto them.

madamez · 29/12/2007 09:48

I had a golly when I was little and in my mind it was a pixie/teddy-bear-type creature, not a caricature of a person. FWIW I would not be wild about buying one for DS or him being given one, purely because I have a friend who does find them upsetting and offensive.
But what I would like to see is a toy manufacturer producing a line of 'gollies' with oragne, blue, green, purple faces etc so you've got the fun cuddly kids toy reclaimed from the dubious elements.

madamez · 29/12/2007 09:48

I had a golly when I was little and in my mind it was a pixie/teddy-bear-type creature, not a caricature of a person. FWIW I would not be wild about buying one for DS or him being given one, purely because I have a friend who does find them upsetting and offensive.
But what I would like to see is a toy manufacturer producing a line of 'gollies' with oragne, blue, green, purple faces etc so you've got the fun cuddly kids toy reclaimed from the dubious elements.