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Original poster

To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall Part 2

997 replies

ClaudineClare · 21/01/2022 22:57

A follow on thread from

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4457488-to-be-really-enjoying-boris-johnson-s-downfall?msgid=114425763#114425763

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
jgw1 · 22/01/2022 15:53

@Zonder

I think that's how it works though. And we know what happens when he tries to give his own speech - Peppa Pig Land and all that 😂
Does he just sit in a fridge with the wine in between reading us the messages? Couldn't we just get a robot to do it, probably cheaper on the wallpaper.
Florianus · 22/01/2022 15:57

@Trilley

You seem to have confused two different issues, ClaudineClare. The blackmail issue is about Wragg and the Whips' office - not about Johnson.

The efforts of the Conservative Whips to save the backside of the leader of the Conservative party is not about the leader of the Conservative party, @Florianus? Could you explain that?

If the Chief Whip did what was alleged, it was to persuade tory MPs to vote for the government in Commons divisions. There have been no votes about Johnson - neither to get rid of him, nor to save his backside.
Florianus · 22/01/2022 16:00

jgw1:
Planet Earth is about 4.5billion years old, so just before Christmas could probably include anything from the past few thousand years.

Congratulations on the prize for the most boring pedantry of 2022.

merrymouse · 22/01/2022 16:00

The discussion was about by-elections just before Christmas. Neither of those you mentioned were held just before Christmas.

Because that is the most relevant thing about Johnson’s own goal bye election 😂

You are outdoing youself!

jgw1 · 22/01/2022 16:00

If the Chief Whip did what was alleged, it was to persuade tory MPs to vote for the government in Commons divisions. There have been no votes about Johnson - neither to get rid of him, nor to save his backside.

Spot on. Johnson is only there to read messages so the business of the government has nothing to do with him.

jgw1 · 22/01/2022 16:01

@Florianus

jgw1: Planet Earth is about 4.5billion years old, so just before Christmas could probably include anything from the past few thousand years.

Congratulations on the prize for the most boring pedantry of 2022.

And yet somehow my post still make far more sense than some on this thread.
Zonder · 22/01/2022 16:01

The robot idea would work for me @jgw1 😄

jgw1 · 22/01/2022 16:04

@Zonder

The robot idea would work for me *@jgw1* 😄
Would they be able to drink wine at parties to thank the staff?

The design would need some careful thinking about.

Florianus · 22/01/2022 16:05

jgw1
Well yes I know about speechwriters, but apparently all Boris does is read out messages others have written.

What's your evidence for that? Anyone who has seen him in PMQs, for instance, can see that he is not just reading out messages.

Just before the usual suspects claim that I am supporting Johnson, I point out as usual that I am trying to correct the avalanche of errors, exaggerations and false claims that pervade the writings of a number of contributors to this thread.

It is amusing to see that many of those who accuse Johnson of lying, do exactly the same in their posts here.

Florianus · 22/01/2022 16:08

@merrymouse

The discussion was about by-elections just before Christmas. Neither of those you mentioned were held just before Christmas.

Because that is the most relevant thing about Johnson’s own goal bye election 😂

You are outdoing youself!

Eh? There has not been a by-election in Uxbridge since Johnson won the seat.
jgw1 · 22/01/2022 16:09

@Florianus

jgw1 Well yes I know about speechwriters, but apparently all Boris does is read out messages others have written.

What's your evidence for that? Anyone who has seen him in PMQs, for instance, can see that he is not just reading out messages.

Just before the usual suspects claim that I am supporting Johnson, I point out as usual that I am trying to correct the avalanche of errors, exaggerations and false claims that pervade the writings of a number of contributors to this thread.

It is amusing to see that many of those who accuse Johnson of lying, do exactly the same in their posts here.

A poster earlier in the day had suggested, despite many other posters pointing out the avalanche of errors, exaggerations and false claims that pervaded their writings, that Boris did not have responsibility for the usual range of Prime Ministerial responsibilities, but in fact was merely a messenger.

I was just gently exploring whether the idea had any merit. I think most would agree with you that it does not.

Florianus · 22/01/2022 16:10

jgw1:
Johnson is only there to read messages

Where do you get these crazy ideas from? It sounds like you need to lie down for a while.

Florianus · 22/01/2022 16:12

jgw1:
A poster earlier in the day had suggested, despite many other posters pointing out the avalanche of errors, exaggerations and false claims that pervaded their writings, that Boris did not have responsibility for the usual range of Prime Ministerial responsibilities, but in fact was merely a messenger.

I cannot find any post which claims that the PM is "merely a messenger". Please cite the post or else admit that you keep making up falsehoods.

jgw1 · 22/01/2022 16:13

@Florianus

jgw1: Johnson is only there to read messages

Where do you get these crazy ideas from? It sounds like you need to lie down for a while.

I know it is a bizarre notion isn't it. The trouble may be that I haven't had time for work recently so my bottle of red remains unopened.

You were probably busy this morning and don't have time to read through the whole thread, but there was a poster suggesting that Boris doesn't have any responsibility for the actions of those who work closest with him whilst they are at work. A really crazy idea I am sure you would agree.

Trilley · 22/01/2022 16:15

It will be up to the police to decide if the allegation amounts to a case of criminal activity. Given that the alleged blackmailer (the Chief Whip) would not make any personal gain from the alleged threat, nor would Wragg seem to suffer any personal loss, I doubt that things are anywhere as near so simple as some here seem to thik.

Definition of blackmail from the CPS website:

The offence of blackmail is committed when a person with a view to gain for themselves or another or intending to cause loss to another makes an unwarranted demand with menaces. (Section 21 of the 1968 Act) Dishonesty is not an element of the offence.

"Gain" and "loss" are defined at section 34(2) of the 1968 Act and are limited to gain or loss of money or other property. The gain or loss may be temporary and include gain by keeping what one already has and loss by not getting what one might otherwise get.

@Florianus, you keep berating other people for supposed ignorance. Do you think it might be worth acquainting yourself with the facts before making assertions like this?

merrymouse · 22/01/2022 16:16

Eh? There has not been a by-election in Uxbridge since Johnson won the seat.

Own goal by-election in North Shropshire. But then you know that.

CluckingFunts · 22/01/2022 16:19

.

Florianus · 22/01/2022 16:19

@merrymouse

Eh? There has not been a by-election in Uxbridge since Johnson won the seat.

Own goal by-election in North Shropshire. But then you know that.

No I didn't know you were referring to North Shropshire because you failed to express yourself clearly.
Trilley · 22/01/2022 16:20

If the Chief Whip did what was alleged, it was to persuade tory MPs to vote for the government in Commons divisions. There have been no votes about Johnson - neither to get rid of him, nor to save his backside.

How do you know, @Florianus? Were you there?

And might it perhaps be against Johnson's interests for it to be seen that MPs in his party aren't supporting him in Parliamentary votes?

Original poster
ClaudineClare · 22/01/2022 16:20

Florianus you were quite fun for a while, but now you are ruining what was an interesting thread. Please stop insulting posters.

OP posts:
Florianus · 22/01/2022 16:21

Trilley
@Florianus, you keep berating other people for supposed ignorance. Do you think it might be worth acquainting yourself with the facts before making assertions like this?

I have already explained why this is unlikely to be a simple case of blackmail and why I therefore suspect that the police won't touch it with a bargepole.

Trilley · 22/01/2022 16:23

@Florianus

jgw1 Well yes I know about speechwriters, but apparently all Boris does is read out messages others have written.

What's your evidence for that? Anyone who has seen him in PMQs, for instance, can see that he is not just reading out messages.

Just before the usual suspects claim that I am supporting Johnson, I point out as usual that I am trying to correct the avalanche of errors, exaggerations and false claims that pervade the writings of a number of contributors to this thread.

It is amusing to see that many of those who accuse Johnson of lying, do exactly the same in their posts here.

Yet, as more than one person has pointed out, when you purport to correct the "errors" about who appoints the PPS and the party Whips, it was you who was in error, @Florianus. Any chance of you acknowledging that?
Florianus · 22/01/2022 16:23

@Trilley

If the Chief Whip did what was alleged, it was to persuade tory MPs to vote for the government in Commons divisions. There have been no votes about Johnson - neither to get rid of him, nor to save his backside.

How do you know, @Florianus? Were you there?

And might it perhaps be against Johnson's interests for it to be seen that MPs in his party aren't supporting him in Parliamentary votes?

I know because Hansard records votes in parliament. Everyone can see which MPs are, or are not, voting for their party.
jgw1 · 22/01/2022 16:24

@Florianus

jgw1: A poster earlier in the day had suggested, despite many other posters pointing out the avalanche of errors, exaggerations and false claims that pervaded their writings, that Boris did not have responsibility for the usual range of Prime Ministerial responsibilities, but in fact was merely a messenger.

I cannot find any post which claims that the PM is "merely a messenger". Please cite the post or else admit that you keep making up falsehoods.

I think the idea may have arisen from a post at 10.15.54 this morning on this thread that started the notion that Boris Johnson is a messenger. I am sure if the poster who wrote it didn't mean that Boris Johnson is a messenger they will post a correction.
Trilley · 22/01/2022 16:26

@Florianus

Trilley *@Florianus*, you keep berating other people for supposed ignorance. Do you think it might be worth acquainting yourself with the facts before making assertions like this?

I have already explained why this is unlikely to be a simple case of blackmail and why I therefore suspect that the police won't touch it with a bargepole.

Where? You claim that no-one gained anything financially, but as pointed out that isn't necessary for the facts of the offence to be established.