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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall Part 2

997 replies

ClaudineClare · 21/01/2022 22:57

A follow on thread from

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4457488-to-be-really-enjoying-boris-johnson-s-downfall?msgid=114425763#114425763

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
SuitcaseOfWhine · 22/01/2022 18:29

I'm torn about Boris going as I kind of want to keep the damage going for as long as possible so that people remember this at next GE.

I expect Cummings has more on him and is waiting for Boris to lie through the enquiry and catch him out by revealing more afterwards.

I hope there is sufficient evidence for the blackmailing, which IMO is worse and unveils corruption with voting in parliament. I'm so angry about that and can't understand why people aren't angry about it too. Public money is basically a bargaining tool to vote through laws and policies that often aren't in the interest of the public. Utterly disgusting behaviour.

I'm angry at all of the Tories to be honest, especially the cabinet ministers. They are a bunch of crooks - corrupt, incompetent bullies. They have absolutely no interest in serving the public - it is about being at the forefront of decisions so they can invest their money and profit from being in their role. They are no better than the crooks who brought about the financial crisis in 2008, except they are not just wrecking the economy but everything else too. I hope the general public sees this.

ClaudineClare · 22/01/2022 18:36

Life is going to get very bleak for a lot of people soon, and as SuitcaseOfWhine says, the government cares nothing for ordinary people. Sadly that won't change even if Johnson does get the boot. I would still lime to see him go though.

OP posts:
ClaudineClare · 22/01/2022 18:38

I should have said "bleaker for a lot of people" as there is already a lot of suffering.

I think I will have a glass of work now, to cheer myself up.

OP posts:
Peregrina · 22/01/2022 18:39

I am catching up after being busy for a few hours, which wasn't work because I didn't consume any alcohol.

Does anyone here bother to read threads accurately?

I think you will find that we do. Which leads on to the second point:

The discussion was about by-elections just before Christmas. Neither of those you mentioned were held just before Christmas.

The discussion is the second thread on whether we are enjoying Boris's downfall. His downfall is multifaceted, but anything which happened after he became PM may be relevant to why he's in the position he is in now. Which includes by election losses and gains.

Moving on:
Out of the things you list he is not responsible for the business of government in the Commons - that is the responsibility of Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Would you care to remind us who appointed Rees-Mogg to his position as Leader of the House of Commons. Could it be one Boris Johnson?

ClaudineClare · 22/01/2022 18:40

Lime!? Like!

I need to proof-read my posts more closely.

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 22/01/2022 18:44

The Times' Tim Shipman @ShipperUnbound latest tweet

EXCLUSIVE: Sue Gray has widened the scope of her inquiry to include claims of parties in Boris & Carrie Johnson’s Downing Street flat

And Beth Rigby @BethRigby
.@Dominic2306 has alleged a Downing Street flat party took place on 13 November (during the second Covid lockdown). @ShippersUnbound reports that Gray now looking at claims linked to flat…

Alexandra2001 · 22/01/2022 18:45

[quote ClaudineClare]The Institute for Government (which is a think tank with charitable status, not a government department) that Flo quotes is of the opinion that Parliament lacks real power to hold the PM to account on the Sue Gray report.
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/parliament-sue-gray-report[/quote]
No surprise, he appointed Sue Gray, hardly likely to do so thinking her report could be his downfall.

NiceShrubbery · 22/01/2022 18:47

corruption with voting in parliament. I'm so angry about that and can't understand why people aren't angry about it too

People need to realise they have a choice and they do have power. They're learning to fight back against abusive relationships in their personal lives; now it's about transferring that attitude to politics.

There's so much defeatism on here and elsewhere, though. As if people think they're saddled with the completely unacceptable forever. Boris and his corrupt system have to be forced out if it takes 2 years or 20. Our govt is unsustainable, too much is coming to light.

Notonthestairs · 22/01/2022 19:04

Duncin - the full article is very interesting. I don't know whether it will give you access. I dug it up on Twitter.

twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/1484949540075618312?s=21

Notonthestairs · 22/01/2022 19:05

It mentions amongst other things that Cummings will meet Sue Gray tomorrow.

ClaudineClare · 22/01/2022 19:11

From @Gabriel_Pogrund

EXCLUSIVE: Christian Wakeford says Gavin Williamson is the MP who threatened to cancel a new school in his constituency if he voted against govt on free school meals He's categorical: "It was Gavin Williamson" — then education secretary.

Wakeford says Williamson told him it wouldn't be "helpful" to oppose govt while seeking an "extremely large favour" for his seat Williamson says he doesn't have "any recollection" of the incident.

Murkier and murkier.

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 22/01/2022 19:15

Thanks notonthestairs, that is the tweet I copied, shame it is behind paywall.

jgw1 · 22/01/2022 19:19

@ClaudineClare

From *@Gabriel*_Pogrund

EXCLUSIVE: Christian Wakeford says Gavin Williamson is the MP who threatened to cancel a new school in his constituency if he voted against govt on free school meals He's categorical: "It was Gavin Williamson" — then education secretary.

Wakeford says Williamson told him it wouldn't be "helpful" to oppose govt while seeking an "extremely large favour" for his seat Williamson says he doesn't have "any recollection" of the incident.

Murkier and murkier.

More whataboutery.

How about some actual evidence of something that Boris has done and is responsible for?

DuncinToffee · 22/01/2022 19:20
Angry David Schneider is spot on Nothing sums up the Tories like contemplating a knighthood for a Schools minister who blackmailed an MP with withholding money for a school unless that MP voted to let schoolkids starve.
ClaudineClare · 22/01/2022 19:30

Is that sarcasm @jgw1, or are you Florianus in disguise?Grin

OP posts:
jgw1 · 22/01/2022 19:33

@ClaudineClare

Is that sarcasm *@jgw1*, or are you Florianus in disguise?Grin
They were doing such a bad job I thought I would try.
Blossomtoes · 22/01/2022 19:41

😂

jgw1 · 22/01/2022 19:43

@ClaudineClare

From *@Gabriel*_Pogrund

EXCLUSIVE: Christian Wakeford says Gavin Williamson is the MP who threatened to cancel a new school in his constituency if he voted against govt on free school meals He's categorical: "It was Gavin Williamson" — then education secretary.

Wakeford says Williamson told him it wouldn't be "helpful" to oppose govt while seeking an "extremely large favour" for his seat Williamson says he doesn't have "any recollection" of the incident.

Murkier and murkier.

Look at the kind of idiots the Prime Minister has to work with. Is it hardly surprising that he sometimes makes errors of judgement and needs a glass of wine to relax.
DuncinToffee · 22/01/2022 19:53

Wow, this is horrendous

Sunday Times
🔺 EXCLUSIVE: A Conservative MP has accused a party whip of telling her she was fired from her ministerial job because her Muslim faith was “making colleagues uncomfortable” t.co/5ppNltXtDh

(sorry, another paywall article)

ancientgran · 22/01/2022 19:55

@Alexandra2001

But, as widely discussed on the radio this morning, putting pressure on MPs is how Westminster works - it would be surprising if parliament has acted criminally for the last few centuries

Huge difference between persuasion and blackmail, what was acceptable in the 1640s may not be now..

Wragg has been an MP for 7 years, is v/chair of the 1922 committee and is well respected, his allegations are backed up by 2 other MPs

I loved bojo's response "i have seen no evidence..." From the party that bought us "No evidence of Russian influence on Brexit..." then told us all "We never looked for any"

At that moment I could clearly see him standing with his eyes shut, fingers in his ears and loudly singing lalalalalalalala. Of course he hasn't seen any evidence, I would imagine if someone tried to show him any he'd run a mile.
jgw1 · 22/01/2022 19:58

@DuncinToffee

Wow, this is horrendous

Sunday Times
🔺 EXCLUSIVE: A Conservative MP has accused a party whip of telling her she was fired from her ministerial job because her Muslim faith was “making colleagues uncomfortable” t.co/5ppNltXtDh

(sorry, another paywall article)

Boris is well known for his love and tolerance of all people so this will definitely not stick to him.
Notonthestairs · 22/01/2022 20:06

Will Boris Johnson Run Out of Road - Tim Shipman (the Times) covers various - probably quite standard! - shanningans watching who MP's are talking to and meeting with. Various hints how they have been handling the rebels ("a combination of carrots and sticks with accusations that these verged towards bribery and blackmail"). Sue Gray extending her list of parties to the PM's flat - Cabinet spads in attendance w/0 any officials present. And ends essentially with the indication that there will be a number of resignations but those involved will simply be moved on elsewhere, so its clearly not career ending :-
“The senior staff are clear that we need to protect the prime minister,” said one of those in the line of fire, signalling the potential for mass resignations from Johnson’s inner circle. Rosenfield told colleagues last week they may need to “fall on their swords” — though one colleague remarked: “He didn’t give the impression he would be leaping on to the first sword.”

There are discussions about Rosenfield being offered a peerage and a ministerial job in the Cabinet Office — or to return as a mandarin to the Treasury. He could be replaced by Simone Finn, the deputy chief of staff, a more political figure. Simon Case, the cabinet secretary, could be found an ambassadorship or moved to an intelligence job such as the head of GCHQ when the post next becomes available.

There are serious questions about whether Johnson can recover. One senior Whitehall figure said: “Everyone seems to be forgetting the spectre of the Covid inquiry, which is going to have to start this year. That psychodrama is going to continue. Is Boris going to give evidence about whether he wanted the bodies to pile high? That might be better as an ex-prime minister.”

Another of the parliamentary aides in the Rosenfield meeting said: “At some point in politics you always lose the benefit of the doubt and I think that this might be the time for him. That ability to glide through scrapes is gone.”

Notonthestairs · 22/01/2022 20:09

EXCLUSIVE: A Conservative MP has accused a party whip of telling her she was fired from her ministerial job because her Muslim faith was “making colleagues uncomfortable”

if this is true it is horrendous. Wasn;t there a report about Islamaphobia within the Conservative party a few years ago - I can't remember the details.

TheLovelinessOfDemons · 22/01/2022 20:10

Finally caught up. This is depressing.

ancientgran · 22/01/2022 20:16

@Florianus

Trilley Where? You claim that no-one gained anything financially, but as pointed out that isn't necessary for the facts of the offence to be established.

Why not look for yourself? I pointed out that the whips have, throughout history, threatened recalcitrant MPs with all manner of things, such as no promotion, no jollies to exotic places, and so on. Nobody over the last 250 years has claimed this to be a criminal offence, and I very much doubt that the police will want to get involved in all the potential legal arguments now. They tend to prefer, like Sir Patrick Vallance and Sir Chris Whitty, to steer well clear of politics.

That isn't the same as saying public money will be withdrawn if the MP doesn't do what he's told.

Also the threats of releasing stories to damage them is surely a traditional form of blackmail. In the old days that threat was often about exposing someone as gay but I'm not sure what it would be now but I don't think that is what whips are expected to do.

Johnny Mercer has said when he fell out with the whips there was some campaign of talking to former army colleagues to try and discredit his autobiography. It seems like they couldn't find any dirt though.

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