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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What can realistically be done with violent kids in classroom?

403 replies

EdithRea · 21/01/2022 17:06

Since Reception one boy has been a problem in the classroom. Aggressive, swearing, tears down the displays, rips up children's work, throws chairs, uses the f and c word at the teacher and screams throughout class.

Instead of regaling me with nice tales of crayoning or writing, my youngest instead reported that various male teachers from around the school frequently have to be called to the classroom to restrain this child. Hearing a 4 year old talk about such things was a shock, but it became our day to day reality. The boy is violent to classmates and I told her to keep as far away as she could, to stay with a teacher if necessary, as he 'looks up girls skirts' and tears out their hair.

He has been known to gleefully kill insects in front of the other children, which left my child utterly distraught at the time. One was a butterfly.

A few years pass. The kid remains problematic and class projects and plans are cancelled due to him. The entire playground needs to be split up especially to 'keep him away' from starting fights with other boys.

Pandemic hits, homeworking, I slowly forget The Kid. She goes back, and I am reminded of The Kid. The displays are torn down again. More chairs thrown. I see the child arriving at school. He's obviously much larger. Male teachers are still brought in to control him. He is often removed from the room and taught elsewhere, meaning no teaching assistant cover for the class.

Today a science fair type treat for the children was ruined because instead of building their experiments and displaying their models, the boy went around the room and tore everyone's work to shreds, and again had to be restrained and removed by male teachers. I reiterate that only because it must be his size, or an indicator as to the level of his aggression, that they call the blokes in.

Back in the days that school trips existed, her class never went. They were supposed to get 'a treat' last year which got cancelled after The Kid smashed a newly refurbished bathroom up, tearing up tiles and plaster.

What can realistically be done? There's been years of this now, and my child sounds so bloody upset and defeated. School is miserable. Class is just a battle between keeping the kids safe from this boy. They're watching adults struggling with a raging boy instead of learning. She's worn down by the most shocking, vile language. She's afraid of the chair-throwing and table upending. And when he's 11 it's going to be a lot worse.

I don't know what can realistically be done. At some point the school should surely admit they cannot cope. But they might not. And in that sense maybe I can ask my kid be moved to another class. But that doesn't help the 28 kids left behind.

There's no spaces at other schools. Very long waiting lists. Can't g o private.

OP posts:
Smileyaxolotl1 · 21/01/2022 21:09

wyfofbathe
I think you may be misinterpreting the posters comment. I may be wrong but I think she’s saying that if parents were really worried about this child they would take their own child out. She thinks that every other child should be removed if they don’t like being attacked, abused and having their work destroyed…….

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 21:09

Well I don't no what your school policy is but when my child is like that he gets send home if he is being s danger to himself or to others he will get sent home.. simple

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 21:12

@1AngelicFruitCake my son has been attacked in school and he need3led medical attention 🙄 no I didn't go kicking off because its not the way about it it was a accident... being ridiculous

1AngelicFruitCake · 21/01/2022 21:13

@Liveandlove91

Hahaha behave aggressively go and give your head a shake these kids don't be aggressive 24 .7 they have triggers... you need to do some research try Google
It’s ok, the boy in my daughters class only threatens to punch the other children 3-4 times a week so that’s ok, they can be terrified those times but of course it’s only a few times a week! You are the only one comparing SEN children to animals. One day your child will be on the receiving end of this and I’d be very surprised if you let it go and weren’t bothered.

You and the other parent on here can tell yourselves the rest of us don’t understand and of course we don’t. None of us said we did! But you don’t understand how awful it is knowing your child has to be scared at school.

Thankfully I don’t know you but from what you’ve written on here you sound rude and aggressive. Think to yourself how often you are this argumentative and snappy because that will affect your child.

Swearing, short temper and being aggressive…just the things we were discussing on this thread in the first place!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/01/2022 21:13

if a child is being unsafe they will be removed and they will be collected my parents

Perhaps that's why some have asked where the parents are in all this?
We can't know whether this child has parents who even care, far less whether they'd respond to a request to pick him up or engage with the school in sorting out better provision - sounds awful I know, but sadly this happens

Also, since some children learn their aggression in the home, it may even be that the school are cautious about the parents

trunktoes · 21/01/2022 21:15

@Liveandlove91 if your son was attacked how can that be an accident? My son was kicked and punched regularly by a child at primary schools. You seem very dismissive of the impact your child has on other children

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 21:20

the child who bit him has addital needs and is blind so ill go and shout at her or any child no!!!! Shd took a chunk of his flesh and needed antibiotics and medical attention but that's not even the point why isn't that an accident things happen

WyfOfBathe · 21/01/2022 21:22

@Liveandlove91

the child who bit him has addital needs and is blind so ill go and shout at her or any child no!!!! Shd took a chunk of his flesh and needed antibiotics and medical attention but that's not even the point why isn't that an accident things happen
Earlier you said that a child who isn't safe wouldn't be in school.

Now you say that a child attacked your son so badly that she took out a chunk of flesh. So you clearly know that not all children are safe in school.

You just think it's acceptable for 29 children to be in danger. If that's what you truly believe, I give up!

VelvetChairGirl · 21/01/2022 21:23

Sorry I mean his primary school gave him the time out room with toys in it and the yellow card system and the mum like support that followed him to every class.

secondary just give him a yellow card with 2 times use for a time out which means going outside the class to the corridor and normally breaking pens ( we buy big bags of them from poundland he gets thru about 5+ a week).

he was much better in the specialist place because they were very consistent. unfortunately secondary isnt ever teacher behaves differently and theres a constant change with supply teachers, but he couldnt stay at the special place because he wasnt bad enough, they only had like 25 places and I am in london, there are not that many of those places around they are mostly used for severe ASD like unable to communicate and violent etc. I had to travel 5 miles to the one he got two terms in I wish he'd stayed there and the secondary school version is 3 and a half miles away but I cant get him a place there the school has to request it.

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 21:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

trunktoes · 21/01/2022 21:24

I one is saying you should go and shout at any child. But I would also be straight down the school about any child biting that requires antibiotics although if it was a one off that would be different. That doesn't mean that behaviour like you are describing is excusable. Perhaps you felt you couldn't complain bearing in mind your own situation. It's just not OK however you try to justify it

Smileyaxolotl1 · 21/01/2022 21:27

Liveandlove91
Accident means that you didn’t mean it to happen. For example if a child pushed over a chair just onto the floor and it happened to bump into a child and hurt them, that is an accident. Deliberately sinking your teeth into another person can never fit the definition of an accident.

WyfOfBathe · 21/01/2022 21:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/01/2022 21:29

Swearing, short temper and being aggressive…just the things we were discussing on this thread in the first place!

Indeed Sad

Smileyaxolotl1 · 21/01/2022 21:29

Liveandlove91
For your own well being I really think you should leave this thread. You are really not giving a very good impression of parents who have children with these sort of additional needs.

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 21:29

I did have words with the school and asked where his 1 to 1 was and she was their but they didn't see the signs before she bit my son of course I didn't just not say nothing lol that's my son and he was hurt .. no behaviour like that is not acceptable and that's why children like this need to be taught these behaviour s are not ok .

Smileyaxolotl1 · 21/01/2022 21:33

VelvetChairGirl
Was it the specialist primary that gave him the person and the time outs etc or the mainstream? If mainstream it sounds like they were doing very well.

I would really be thinking about how you can work with the school to improve the current situation with your son (not saying you aren’t)
As a few previous posters have said secondaries are much more willing to move to exclusion quickly than primaries - obviously not for breaking a few pens in a corridor but if he starts swearing at senior teachers regularly or threatening people.

germsandcoffee · 21/01/2022 21:34

My son was that boy but not as extreme.
Please don't form a parent mob !
All express concerns individually, not all parents of disruptive children don't give a fu&& and we have feelings.
It's hard to get help at primary if school don't really force it with those higher.

inheritancetrack · 21/01/2022 21:35

@MNSEN
101 assumptions there based on nothing. OP doesn't know the child's status and neither do you. It is not illegal to exclude a child. You are assuming the school has made attempts to meet his needs. You don't know this. The school have had years to address any additional needs and after such a long time he is still terrorising other children. For his wellbeing and that of the other children he needs to be excluded and his needs addressed. Ultimately the school/head teacher have a duty of care to ensure the safety, the 'physical' safety, of the other children. To me and most right minded people that is paramount. Once that is ensured then the local authority needs to pull its finger out and help this child with a diagnosis of some type via CAMHS. They've had years to get help and OP is rightly outraged her DD is suffering. I'll say again, one child's wellbeing does not trump the wellbeing and safety of 29 other children, just because they have a SN.

And to clarify, the vast majority of SN children (I have one) are not violent and do not hurt insects.

gsaoej · 21/01/2022 21:36

Expelling a child apparently costs the LEA a six figure sum of money. A teacher relative of mine was physically hit and punched by a child who proceeded to rip everything off the wall. No expulsion, not even close. It’s often bad at privates as well so that isn’t necessarily the answer. Kid assaults another kid, resulting in hospital, kid kills school pet, etc etc - parents say school is lying and they will sue.

gsaoej · 21/01/2022 21:36

So no exclusion!

trunktoes · 21/01/2022 21:36

@Liveandlove91 amazing that a blind child managed to bite your sons arm. With the behaviour you are describing from your son sounds like there is more to it. And I agree with pp you are incredibly aggressive and that's probably not helpful in your situation

VelvetChairGirl · 21/01/2022 21:38

I would like to add that if a child has a EHCP it is no one elses business i.e no other parents would be told and having a EHCP means they can not be excluded.

the school can relinquish care to another provider but they would have to find one first and as I said in a previous post the special schools are like gold dust and have very low capacity by their very nature often less then 50 pupils as they are very small groups in the classes. they have to be very very very bad to get a permanent place in one of those schools, like serious injuries, biting isnt serious enough, I mean life threatening, there was a biter at my sons primary school and one who bit his tongue until it bled on a regular basis if he didnt get what he wanted.

Liveandlove91 · 21/01/2022 21:40

@germsandcoffee . Nice name . Is your son in private school or mainstream if don't mind me asking x

NoRaceInThisHorse · 21/01/2022 21:41

Poor child obviously has deeper problems, and not at all his fault that the school can not meet his needs. I suspect that the school has tried to get extra provision, t its a very long process.
However, it is not far on the others in the class- why did their treat also get cancelled, for one?

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