To be worried about war

[Ciaram55]

The stand off between Russia and the west over Ukraine. I can't see either side backing down. I'm just so worried now. I know that worrying doesn't help but it seems to be a very tense time right now.

Back to Ukraine: Why should Putin back down. He has had some troops on standby for weeks now. Do you think he will choose to send them back to wherever they came from? Who will make him? How will they exert any pressure?

@Enb76

More that his actions appear far more beneficial to Russia than the UK at the moment.

What, sending anti-tank weaponry to Ukraine? How does that benefit Russia exactly?

What are their rules of engagement ?

@Politics4me

To set the record straight Atlee Govt gave away the jet engine details to Soviets, Shipped some complete RR engines to Russia. Which they copied and put in MiG fighters for Korean War. Denis Healy destroyed our TSR2 prototypes. Would not allow it to go ahead because it was so much better than anything the Soviets had. All drawings burned all jigs cut up. Vindictive old commie.

Do what ?

[quote Enb76]We sent an arms lift to the Ukraine, flying around Germany. I don't know whether there will be a fight but it looks like we are definitely standing with Ukraine if there is

twitter.com/geoallison/status/1483899430378127365[/quote]
Notice how they are skirting Germany?

@Chely

War is unlikely to happen as it has in the past. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

We should all be very worried indeed. Are we so quick to forget Russia's ongoing agressive actions (Georgia and Crimea? Constant incursions in the Baltics and northern Finland, not to mention the mass cyber attacks and the murder of individuals on foreign soil, including in the UK)? War with Russia has already happened and continues to happen. It is most definitely going to get worse. My fear is, once again, that the UK will do nothing and let the smaller nations that are of no 'value' (no oil, no massive natural gas reserves to bail us out of trouble etc) fall.

Frankly I find this more worrying.

www.reuters.com/world/russia-china-iran-hold-joint-naval-drill-friday-isna-2022-01-20/

@Blinkingbatshit

Yes, I’m with you. The couple of people I’ve mentioned it to have been like “oh come on, we’re just coming out of a pandemic, enjoy yourself”….they seem to be able to blindly ignore that Putin has become more and more despotic and is amassing troops on the edge of a country who will turn to us for help (& we should give it). It has the potential to make the pandemic seem like a small blip by comparison🙈. And whilst I hate Boris and think he should go we should probably not start a leadership contest till we’ve seen what the next few weeks & months bring😖

This. I think people are in denial.

Putin is being ridiculous. He does definitely harbour a grudge over the collapse of the Soviet Union but equally he is not as popular as he was 20 odd years ago, corruption appears to be rife and his ability to remain in power is probably in no small part to creative election processes.

Creating a situation like this is an easy win because we know that it's not hard to tap into nationalist feelings. The funny thing is that he is claiming that Russians and Ukrainians are one people but an invasion with all the bloodshed that it causes wouldn't exactly endear Ukranians towards Russia and subsuming Ukraine into a greater Russia would push them right up against NATO countries, which is ironically what he constantly complains is a threat to Russia.

Ignoring it and doing nothing merely kicks the can down the road. Sooner or later he would turn his attention towards former Warsaw pact countries, which are ones that NATO is obliged to protect.

America is actually playing a decent enough strategy by exposing Russian attempts to provoke a conflict by way of a false flag operation and the threat of major economic sanctions. Ukraine is not a NATO member and it's hard to envisage them being admitted at this point. That being said, any invasion, whilst a disaster for that region economically and humanitarian wise, wouldn't exactly be at zero cost to Russia either. Ukraine would put up quite a fight not just to defend against invasion but thereafter in terms of resistance.

@Blinkingbatshit

Yes, I’m with you. The couple of people I’ve mentioned it to have been like “oh come on, we’re just coming out of a pandemic, enjoy yourself”….they seem to be able to blindly ignore that Putin has become more and more despotic and is amassing troops on the edge of a country who will turn to us for help (& we should give it). It has the potential to make the pandemic seem like a small blip by comparison🙈. And whilst I hate Boris and think he should go we should probably not start a leadership contest till we’ve seen what the next few weeks & months bring😖

(& we should give it)

Why?

I am scared to death tbh. I often lay in bed with my dog and my mind goes to scenarios about nuclear bombs and hiding under a mattress in the cupboard under the stairs. It is my dog I worry about more, as daft as that may sound.
Am avoiding the news (which is my go tactic anyway).
I do hope it is some dick swinging contest like these things usually are. But then I am also aware that whatever it ends up being, it is totally and utterly out of my control anyway.

it feels like China and Russia have come out of no where

Have they? China especially has made no secret of its plans to become a world power, and Russia is always flexing its muscles. Only those paying no attention think they have come out of nowhere. I do think if there is war its likely to be predominantly economic and cyber warfare.

I’m aware of the situation but not worrying about it, there is absolutely zero point in worrying about stuff I have no control over.

@Teddybar

it feels like China and Russia have come out of no where

Have they? China especially has made no secret of its plans to become a world power, and Russia is always flexing its muscles. Only those paying no attention think they have come out of nowhere. I do think if there is war its likely to be predominantly economic and cyber warfare.

I hate to imagine the price of energy if Russia decided to cut off the gas supply although with that being said, it's a not an insignificant source of revenue for them.

Denis Healy destroyed our TSR2 prototypes. Would not allow it to go ahead because it was so much better than anything the Soviets had. All drawings burned all jigs cut up

I didn’t know he’d done that - what reason did he give for doing that? I mean, presumably he didn’t admit it was because they were better than anything the Soviets had.

I hate to imagine the price of energy if Russia decided to cut off the gas supply although with that being said, it's a not an insignificant source of revenue for them.

Indeed, C & E would be terrible so not minimising, I mean that could be the infrastructure crumbled as so much is online, and our economy is so reliant on other countries, but I don't think war as has been is overall that likely. That said, there's literally nothing I can do to control what happens so I try not to worry, what will be will be etc.

@Andante57

Denis Healy destroyed our TSR2 prototypes. Would not allow it to go ahead because it was so much better than anything the Soviets had. All drawings burned all jigs cut up

I didn’t know he’d done that - what reason did he give for doing that? I mean, presumably he didn’t admit it was because they were better than anything the Soviets had.

TSR2 was obsolete before it was scrapped. ICBMs saw to that.

There's a TSR2 at RAF Cosford if you really need to see what ancient looks like.

Oh - and some of the TSR2 engineering ended up in Concorde.

I've no idea how not to worry about this! Well, I worry for the kids I love, but all the same. I can't bring myself to read that link about Russia, China and Iran, it'll be too depressing.

During the last 2 years I did wonder at times if the economic impact would lead to a big war eventually. History probably shows precedents for that sort of dialectical relationship.

Putin needs to grandstand every now and then as he’s economically incompetent and needs to keep his people in check by creating a crisis at the western border. Covid means that defence budgets are under threat so a bit of grandstanding by western governments also keep money flowing into defence when it would be better spent elsewhere. It’s really not hard to see past the headlines.

Follow the money folks. It’s always big Pharma and defence industry that benefits out of crises. It’s not a conspiracy theory, just the way things are.

Grew up with ads telling us how to protect ourselves in the event of a nuclear attack.

Mattresses, apparently.

It will all calm down. Too many inadequate men posturing.

Really, turn the news off and get on with your life.

The thing is, as horrific as previous wars have been, a war in this time of nuclear weapons? Wouldn't that be the end of the world as we know it? I mean it could easily be the end of the world completely, right? It takes one country to do it and it's basically game over. I find it bloody terrifying these things are out there!

@Yebbie

The thing is, as horrific as previous wars have been, a war in this time of nuclear weapons? Wouldn't that be the end of the world as we know it? I mean it could easily be the end of the world completely, right? It takes one country to do it and it's basically game over. I find it bloody terrifying these things are out there!

It is terrifying

If it turns nuclear we’re finished.

Not being alarmist, I don't know enough about this current situation to suggest it could turn nuclear, but it is bloody scary. I do believe we've invented the very thing that will kill us all one day, whether it's our generations or not. With so many nuclear weapons out there I struggle to believe it will never go nuclear, at some point in the future of the human race.

I just hope my kids aren't around if/when!