If we have to vote this year or the next, women who will not vote Labour due to the GRA raise your hand

[TerraNovaTwo]

As above

@Omicrone

I won't be voting Labour at the next election unless some serious change happens within the party.

I always say this, but this isn't about a single issue for me. Yes, the issue of self-ID is important for me, but much more than that, I have found it quite frankly terrifying the utter stupid shit that these politicians have come out with in order to stick to the dogma of trans ideology. The lack of critical thinking and basic judgement really has been astounding. Dawn Butler saying that babies are born without a sex, David Lammy saying that with the right hormones and surgery men can fucking grow a cervix, Alex Sobel saying that he doesn't think women are entitled to any single sex provision at all and if you have an issue with that he doesn't want your bigoted vote anyway, and of course, Lisa Nandy saying that she thinks that if a male rapist wants to go to a female prison then he should be allowed to.

They cannot believe this utter shite, but the fact they are willing to say it in order to look good to, I don't even know who tbh, just really worried me. If they are willing to abandon all credibility on this particular issue in the name of ideology, then what does that say about them as politicians and as a party for other issues as well?

Agreed.

@Omicrone

I won't be voting Labour at the next election unless some serious change happens within the party.

I always say this, but this isn't about a single issue for me. Yes, the issue of self-ID is important for me, but much more than that, I have found it quite frankly terrifying the utter stupid shit that these politicians have come out with in order to stick to the dogma of trans ideology. The lack of critical thinking and basic judgement really has been astounding. Dawn Butler saying that babies are born without a sex, David Lammy saying that with the right hormones and surgery men can fucking grow a cervix, Alex Sobel saying that he doesn't think women are entitled to any single sex provision at all and if you have an issue with that he doesn't want your bigoted vote anyway, and of course, Lisa Nandy saying that she thinks that if a male rapist wants to go to a female prison then he should be allowed to.

They cannot believe this utter shite, but the fact they are willing to say it in order to look good to, I don't even know who tbh, just really worried me. If they are willing to abandon all credibility on this particular issue in the name of ideology, then what does that say about them as politicians and as a party for other issues as well?

Absolutely 100% all of this.

That cut off the first part of my post. There have been some posters claiming that the threat to women's rights are overblown or non existent. From a Scottish perspective, here are some of the threats to women's rights which our 'progressive, left wing' Government are enthusiastically championing.

Will always vote Labour, Louise Haigh is my MP & she is brilliant. It doesn't matter who you vote for because most parties don't seem to have women's issues at their heart.

@Omicrone

I won't be voting Labour at the next election unless some serious change happens within the party.

I always say this, but this isn't about a single issue for me. Yes, the issue of self-ID is important for me, but much more than that, I have found it quite frankly terrifying the utter stupid shit that these politicians have come out with in order to stick to the dogma of trans ideology. The lack of critical thinking and basic judgement really has been astounding. Dawn Butler saying that babies are born without a sex, David Lammy saying that with the right hormones and surgery men can fucking grow a cervix, Alex Sobel saying that he doesn't think women are entitled to any single sex provision at all and if you have an issue with that he doesn't want your bigoted vote anyway, and of course, Lisa Nandy saying that she thinks that if a male rapist wants to go to a female prison then he should be allowed to.

They cannot believe this utter shite, but the fact they are willing to say it in order to look good to, I don't even know who tbh, just really worried me. If they are willing to abandon all credibility on this particular issue in the name of ideology, then what does that say about them as politicians and as a party for other issues as well?

Agreed.

Me. No way would I vote Labour while they’re committed to self-ID.

And I used to be very involved as an active party member.

Was a life long Labour voter. Will never vote for them again until they revise their stance on women’s rights/self-ID.

Am politically homeless and so, so fucking let down by the left.

The Tories have been in power 11 years and there has been a lot more protests by woman saying they feel unsafe than I've ever known.

Have left TWICE over this. Won't be fooled again.

Hands up here. Politically homeless.

Can't vote for them.

Life long labour voter

Will not vote for them now due to this.

No, Can't support a party with this stance. All for live and let live, each to his own, but not at the expense of Women's rights.
No respect for BJ & the Tories so guess I'm another homeless voter.

@TooBigForMyBoots

I am not saying that there aren't pro-self ID MPs in the conservative party or that there isn't much more that they could and should be doing, just that the pro-self ID stuff isn't coming from them anymore (at the moment?)

It very much is coming from Conservative members! Including the Conservative Chair of of the Cross Party Committee for Women and Equalities. Penny Mordaunt who firmly believes TWAW and spoke out on the front benches against sensible HoL's recommendations on the reforms. Crispin Blunt who launched complaints proceedings against the Surrey PCC because she did a JKR tweet.

You just don't hear much about it in the press. I wonder why?

And plenty of Conservative MPs disagree.

That is quite different than the situation in the LP.

I have always voted Labour but no more, as bad as the Tories are (and nothing would make me vote for them) I cannot vote Labour while they continue down this path

What pisses me off so much is that it would be so easy to have trans rights and women's rights. All you have to do is accept they are distinct and separate
Unless of course the aim is to remove all women's rights in which case it is a MRA

No one has said anything about not wanting trans people to exist. There is a very big difference between right to exist and what trans actually means.

I can see what people are saying about single issue voting but the arguments about the damage tories have done need taking in context. By which I mean that we are losing the ability to keep the records which help us know how austerity disproportionately affects women. Onelce woman is no longer about the female bodied, we can no longer track the oppression wreaked on the female bodied. This is a single issue which impacts on just about every reason people have given for not voting Tory. I was a die hard labour voter but can't vote for a party which is not just misogynistic but also proud of that fact.

I would just love to ask the LP - how is it that you don't understand that you have to represent what real voters want, not just what you think they ought to want?

I want to vote Labour, but can't because of this issue.

I feel I can't vote for a party who pretends (and they are pretending, they don't actually believe it) that women are a personality type a man can have.

I probably would vote for an individual candidate who supported women and acknowledged we are a sex, even if her/his party was pretending otherwise though.

It's a real test of integrity, I feel. If you're too chicken shit to state what a woman is, then you've got absolutely no business being in Parliament. We need to get our parliamentarians back to honesty and integrity, after this, er, blip.

Me. Voted Labour most elections. Member of the Labour Party until recently. I will not vote for Labour as long as they are pretending not to know what a woman is.

Tricky, my MP is Rosie duffield and she's been brilliant and obviously very vocal about women's rights so despite not voting labour before I'll probably switch to labour if she stands.

I can’t believe there are some people here who think this is a “single issue”, which will result in the (debatable) short term positives that Labour might bring being lost. It’s not. It affects everything.

You can’t have misogyny added as a hate crime because it will then mean men being hateful towards men.

You can’t be sure women are disproportionately affected by anything like austerity because the definition will include men.

You can’t provide health services appropriately because the definition will include men.

You can’t provide prison services exclusively for women because the definition will include men.

You can’t provide sport exclusively for women and girls because the definition will include men and boys.

Essentially, think of anything that exclusively affects women, is supposed to be exclusively for women, is supposedly protected for women and realise that will disappear. Imagine everything you see that says “women” then mentally add “plus men” to it and think about whether you’re happy with that. This is not a single issue, this is a single issue that has widespread ramifications for every single thing that women have, and if Labour were to get this legislation through, do you think the men who benefit will let a future Tory government roll it back? No chance.

So it’s either another 10 years of Tory rule and the negative effects on women in austerity, poverty, disability in the short term, or centuries of politics where women as a sex class doesn’t exist.

And if people suffer under Tory rule as a result of Labour being unable to move on from this issue to win votes, then it is not the fault of the voters, the fault entirely lies with Labour for failing to realise the implications of this. No one should be made to feel bad because they are not prepared to send the women and girls of the future century down the river for the sake of getting rid of a transient bunch of Tory fuckwits.

My female Labour MP won't get my vote. She doesn't know what a woman is and she's a doctor FFS.

And if people suffer under Tory rule as a result of Labour being unable to move on from this issue to win votes, then it is not the fault of the voters, the fault entirely lies with Labour for failing to realise the implications of this.

It's like, Labour has some great policy ideas, but they have one policy so many people just completely balk at, they can't win even among the people who like their other policies.

In what world do they keep that on the agenda? What is the thinking?

And if people suffer under Tory rule as a result of Labour being unable to move on from this issue to win votes, then it is not the fault of the voters, the fault entirely lies with Labour for failing to realise the implications of this. No one should be made to feel bad because they are not prepared to send the women and girls of the future century down the river for the sake of getting rid of a transient bunch of Tory fuckwits.

This beats repeating.