If we have to vote this year or the next, women who will not vote Labour due to the GRA raise your hand

[TerraNovaTwo]

As above

No way never ever… women need protection and respect!

They aren't trying to pass self-id, and they've made lots of indications they are not going to be pursuing other legislation of this type, or at least are reconsidering it.

It is an active Conservative policy.

The 3rd Report into reform of the GRA was only submitted to Parliament last month. It noted that Liz Truss, Minister for Women and Equalities didn't bother turning up. She didn't advocate for women or the safety of children. Why not when it could have put the brakes on it for once and for all?

Self ID is a Conservative policy. We have a Conservative government. They can do this now. Not voting Labour in the future isn't going to change a thing.

Self-Id isn't a conservative policy, it is a recommendation of the Women and Equalities Committee, which is a cross-party committee.

It's happening under the Tory government though so I'm confused as to why this is aimed at Labour. The Tories are the ones in government with the power to stop it.
There is a theory that the Cons were caught on the back-foot, so desperately trying to #BeKind after Section 28 that they didn't twig what was happening. There has been a lot of pushback in very recent times with many Govt Depts dropping Stonewall like a hot potato.

I.e. It is a committee created to hold the government to account with respect to matters within its remit. It is making recommendations to the government. It is up to the government whether they make policy/law to pursue the recommendations. So far the Conservative policy have declined to do so, other than the concessions Liz Truss announced a while back (e.g. reducing the fee)

Self ID is on the table because the Conservative Party decided to reform the GRA and propose Self ID. Remember Penny Mordaunt? Shes still a minister and Front bench trans activist. The issue of men in women's prisons etc. has happened under Tory governance. Liz Truss CBA to advocate for women in this policy drive, even though that's her job.

The Conservative Party could make this go away tomorrow. Anyone wishing to get rid of Self ID would be better campaigning for this government to do it now, than threatening a future vote for the opposition.

How many, exactly, are needed before it becomes a problem? 5? 50? 100? For me, personally, one woman being forced away from support aimed at females because a male's feelings trumps her trauma is too many. How many do you need?

One woman feeling uncomfortable at a rape therapy session hosted by a charity is a bad thing. But I'd need more than that to convince me that women's services were now "unusable", or that the Labour Party represented such a threat to Women's Rights.

I’d vote based on more than just this. Whatever your views on gender there are MUCH bigger threats to humankind.

Me. I've emailed and told them so. Not sure who I'm voting for now...

I was a single parent my Dd's whole life, technically still am but she's an adult now, I'm disabled and I live in Scotland.
I won't touch any party atm.
How can I?

Really Dotty? You think a woman who has been raped would be "uncomfortable " speaking about that rape in front of a male who identifies as a woman. Uncomfortable. What, pray tell, would the male be doing there? Assuming the male is another service user.

yep

@Millionairesshortbreadshort

I’d vote based on more than just this. Whatever your views on gender there are MUCH bigger threats to humankind.

This thread is about this threat to women so that's why this threat is the one being commented on. Obviously there are other issues you could make a thread about if they concern you so much.

@HaroldMeeker

Really Dotty? You think a woman who has been raped would be "uncomfortable " speaking about that rape in front of a male who identifies as a woman. Uncomfortable. What, pray tell, would the male be doing there? Assuming the male is another service user.

As a rape survivor I'd feel a lot more than merely uncomfortable but perhaps Dotty wouldn't

But they did reform the GRA and they didn't introduce self Id. I am not saying that there aren't pro-self ID MPs in the conservative party or that there isn't much more that they could and should be doing, just that the pro-self ID stuff isn't coming from them anymore (at the moment?). I completely agree that all energies should be on getting the government to do more, much more to support women and sex based rights and to actively take steps to oppose self ID

@HaroldMeeker

Really Dotty? You think a woman who has been raped would be "uncomfortable " speaking about that rape in front of a male who identifies as a woman. Uncomfortable. What, pray tell, would the male be doing there? Assuming the male is another service user.

Enjoying the ego and power trip

Me. I'll be spoiling my ballot again.

👋

🤚
Me. I'll be spoiling my ballot paper for the first time.

@BlueLace

At the risk of sounding dense (and this is a genuine question), please could someone fill me in on what are the risks with Labour's standpoint on self ID? I genuinely want to understand.

These threads should help

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

@DottyDoge

How many, exactly, are needed before it becomes a problem? 5? 50? 100? For me, personally, one woman being forced away from support aimed at females because a male's feelings trumps her trauma is too many. How many do you need?

One woman feeling uncomfortable at a rape therapy session hosted by a charity is a bad thing. But I'd need more than that to convince me that women's services were now "unusable", or that the Labour Party represented such a threat to Women's Rights.

Most women would feel uncomfortable discussing their trauma from male violence and sexual assault, in front of men. Men have no place in these groups set up for women. And seeing as the labour party don't know what a woman is, the problem would get far worse, not better. Not that anyone needs to convince you anyway. Enough people know the erosion of women's rights and safeguards is wrong. And labour won't be getting in for a long long time. The Tory party may be crap. But labour is far worse. It's not a viable alternative. And that will be reflected in how people vote.

Can Mumsnet (without stepping out of their apolitical stance) not ask all political parties what their stances are?

Or answer mediated questions on a live feed?

I agree that there are more urgent and immediate issues - housing, increased cost of living, homelesssness, NHS, schooling, environment including water companies polluting our rivers and sea.

HOWEVER GRA is a major long term consequence. What gives if one party puts more money into women's refuges, rape crisis centres, prisons and the NHS, if women have to tolerate policies that mean they will come across TW or men self IDing as women?

Well that should surely include a party that votes against misogyny being defined as a hate crime.

As you've mentioned this 3 times now*...

Yes, we know

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4456705-Lords-Misogyny-Amendment

Dominic Raab thinks men can be victims of misogyny

Many Labour MPs think men can be women. What's the difference?

Translation: how many of you will allow the Tory party to fuck over the entire country once again because you just can't bear the idea that trans people exist?

WHY does MN allow this tripe?

Love @MrBlobbyLivesNextDoor 's certainty. How do you know they are worse or 'unviable'. The tories
aren't looking so morally viable either.
How come 40 years ago the electorate were quite happy to punish an incompetent administration, hence Major, Heath all lost GEs ? What has happened to us as a nation ? It's just rewarding immorality.