If we have to vote this year or the next, women who will not vote Labour due to the GRA raise your hand

[TerraNovaTwo]

As above

In Labour's 2019 manifesto they committed to introduce self id:

"Labour is committed to reforming the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to introduce self-declaration for transgender people"

p.68 labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Real-Change-Labour-Manifesto-2019.pdf

Have those posters who claim we don't know Labour's policy read the manifesto or are they only here to cast aspersions?

The timing of this thread is so suspicious.
No it isn't. The feminism board have been going on about it for years. Here's a random example from Feb 2020 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3820422--ExpelMe-trending

mobile.twitter.com/pinknews/status/1402586773499244549

Direct from his own mouth, committed to supporting Self ID.

I'll be honest and say I find this stance really disheartening - it comes across petulant, short-sighted, hyperbolic and juvenile and does little to dispel the idea that the most extreme GC feminists care little about the lives of women, and I say that as someone who is 100% GC.

Broadly speaking, most parties are somewhat split on the issue. It was the Tories who put forward the proposed changes to the GRA. Most of the ire pointed at Labour is due to a few MPs who have muttered something about TWAW - I'm sure if you put some Tories under the spot, a lot would say something vaguely pro-trans rights.

I'm also of the view that the debate on trans-rights and the threats are exaggerated. The vast majority people know that women give birth, but as the same time, they want to be tolerant to people who want to transition. There are some horrible cases of women being attacked in prison by transwomen, but they're dwarfed by the numbers attacked by men in their homes or in the streets.

It honestly angers me that while I think this is an important issue, it seems to override everything to the detriment of policies that will actually improve the lives of women.

I’m a lifelong Labour voter and former party member. I spoilt my vote in the last election and will most likely do the same at the next. I will not vote for a party who seem hell bent to eradicate sex distinction.

[quote senua]The timing of this thread is so suspicious.
No it isn't. The feminism board have been going on about it for years. Here's a random example from Feb 2020 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3820422--ExpelMe-trending[/quote]
I imagine the self ID issue is more of a focus on here than in wider society, and in wider life people will make their voting choice in a more nuanced way.

I imagine the self ID issue is more of a focus on here than in wider society, and in wider life people will make their voting choice in a more nuanced way.

Maybe so, but that wasn't the point being made. Women have been concerned about this issue in relation to the Labour Party since 2018 and Lily Madigan etc.

Ditched my Lib Dem membership over this.

I say that as someone who is 100% GC.

You're not "100% GC", are you because you're trying to minimise what women here are concerned about. Everyone has a line in the sand. It sounds like you don't understand why so many women feel betrayed by Labour.

You're not "100% GC", are you because you're trying to minimise what women here are concerned about.

I'm distinguishing my GC belief (I don't think you can change sex, gender is a load of bollocks) from what many perceive to be the catastrophic implications of trans rights. So, yes, I'm 100% gender critical.

I will vote tactically to get the Tories out. Every time.

Won't vote for any party that believes I don't have the right to exist.

Yep I'll be voting Labour

@Alekto

In Labour's 2019 manifesto they committed to introduce self id:

"Labour is committed to reforming the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to introduce self-declaration for transgender people"

p.68 labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Real-Change-Labour-Manifesto-2019.pdf

Have those posters who claim we don't know Labour's policy read the manifesto or are they only here to cast aspersions?

err that was under Corbyn, the new policy has yet to be announced for the next GE... But i just read pg 68... what exactly are you against? Maybe the paragraph that commits Labour to protect LGBT+ from violence and persecution?

Here is what the Tory LGBT+ chair says... "Bunbury said: “Trans people’s rights that exist is not a topic up for discussion. If you feel disenfranchised or distant from the trans community … if you’ve forgotten the struggle that we ourselves felt, campaigning for equality, then truly that’s a shame. But it’s your choice. If you wish to ignore our shared struggle then that is on you.

“Trans people are not dangerous, they’re not scary, and they’re certainly not a threat to women and children – although the other event titles [at the conference] might think they are.”

what exactly are you against?
Self ID. If anybody can identify as a woman then the word becomes meaningless and therefore the concept of women's rights becomes meaningless.

I haven't read the entire thread but I'm up to page 6 and have a question. I have never voted for anything, not because I don't want to but because I moved to a new country when I was a child and by the time I was of voting age in the UK, I was no longer eligible having lived outside of the country for more than 10 years and dont have the nationality (yet) of the country I live in now, so can't vote here either.

I've always been told that spoiling your ballot is one of the worst things you can do when voting and is a sign of massive privilege, just to prove a point that won't be proven. But some posters on this thread are saying they've spoilt it/will spoil it. Can anyone explain to me why they've done that/will do that, and what they hope it achieves, please?

@YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators

But don't just abstain if that's what you're doing, let them know why. When I left, I made it really clear why, and during each subsequent "So can you tell us why you cancelled your membership?"-call, I patiently explained myself and asked the caller to make a note of it and to paraphrase back to me what I had said. They all (4 canvassers in total) had a really good grasp of the issue and even sounded a teensy bit apologetic.

What did you say? Maybe we can use it on our emails to MPs?

What we needed was to change the voting system when we had the chance a few years back. Ironically, that was the referendum in which working people could have re-enfranchised themselves a lot more!

So that’s it’s not a “two horse race” with people put in this position of political homelessness I mean.

Here!

I've always been told that spoiling your ballot is one of the worst things you can do when voting and is a sign of massive privilege, just to prove a point that won't be proven. But some posters on this thread are saying they've spoilt it/will spoil it. Can anyone explain to me why they've done that/will do that, and what they hope it achieves, please?

I would say that this boasting about spoiling your ballot is real 'virtue signalling' in action - engaging in an utterly pointless act and crowing about it here. It doesn't advance the cause (of women's rights) at all.

What has Starmer said that gives any indication the Labour commitment to self-id is no longer in place?

As was very clear from my post, the part of p.68 that I object to is the part I quoted.

Your attempt, Alexandra2001, to portray my objection as being about anything else is as transparent as any other made by any of our other MRA posters

Can anyone explain to me why they [have spoilt their ballot], and what they hope it achieves, please?
I always vote even in the smallest, inconsequential ballot (eg parish council). I feel that it is a debt that I owe to the suffragettes/suffragists.
Sometimes I feel that I cannot give my vote to any of the candidates so I spoil my ballot to give a purposeful message (a) that I'm not not-voting out of apathy or laziness and (b) I tell them why I am spoiling my paper.

elodie77 Yes, that's what I've always thought.

senua Thanks for answering. Genuine question, do you not feel a sense of enormous privilege though by spoiling it? Because it won't actually do anything to further the cause that you're passionate about. So wouldn't it be better to vote for the party that are the closest to what you stand for rather than throw away your vote? I'm mostly saying this as someone who can't vote, so I find it incomprehensible that the people who are privileged enough to be able to, don't use it.

I'm distinguishing my GC belief (I don't think you can change sex, gender is a load of bollocks) from what many perceive to be the catastrophic implications of trans rights. So, yes, I'm 100% gender critical.

I guess GC is a bit of a meaningless label when it comes down to it. You're GC like my mum is, knowing you can't change sex but thinking it's all "a storm in a teacup". Many of us think it's rather fundamental to have women's sex based rights protected in law, and we won't vote for a party that has clearly stated their intention to remove them.