To think this couple's attitude has no place in modern society?

[Georama]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10419543/Christian-couple-ban-gay-man-partner-buying-dream-650-000-sexuality.html

A church-going wife who banned a gay man and his ITV producer partner from buying her £650,000 Surrey home has hit back in the row and insisted they are just sticking to their beliefs.

Luke Whitehouse and Lachlan Mantell were stunned when they were told that they could not buy the three-bedroom home because the Christian owners didn't want to sell to 'two men in a partnership.'

Honestly, they should be ashamed of that text. I hope no estate agent will work with them ever again.

@WindInTheWillows7

Just look at some of the ways Christians are described on this thread. I even saw one comment despairing that this couple might breed, and pass their beliefs onto their children. Sure, people are free to be Christians in the UK without harassment or discrimination, as long as they don't actually live out their faith in society or express their beliefs in the workplace or in public. christianconcern.com/cccases/the-bristol-four/ christianconcern.com/cccases/seyi-omooba/ christianconcern.com/cccases/andrew-sathiyavan/ christianconcern.com/cccases/hatun-tash/ christianconcern.com/cccases/hazel-lewis/

As long as you're one of those nice Christians that doesn't actually take the Bible seriously, or talk about your faith, you're perfectly safe.

"take the Bible seriously" is just code for being homophobic, here, isn't it...?

You're not referring to, say, loving thy neighbour. I think we all know that.

Well orthodox views on marriage are extremely basic elements of the Christian faith - so you are despairing of and insulting Christian couples who teach their children the Bible.

I also despair at parents telling their children that it's wrong to be gay. Whether Christian or not its a disgusting thing to teach a child who might grow up to be gay themselves.

People aren’t being discriminated against because they’re Christians, they are facing consequences for spouting homophobic crap and thinking their religion gives them a free pass to do so. Your religious beliefs don’t make you above workplace rules and the laws in this country, have whatever offensive opinions you want, it’s a problem when you start acting on them and thinking there’s nothing wrong with literally harassing gay people by telling them how they’re sinners committing shameful acts and will burn in hell.

@Elsiebear90

People aren’t being discriminated against because they’re Christians, they are facing consequences for spouting homophobic crap and thinking their religion gives them a free pass to do so. Your religious beliefs don’t make you above workplace rules and the laws in this country, have whatever offensive opinions you want, it’s a problem when you start acting on them and thinking there’s nothing wrong with literally harassing gay people by telling them how they’re sinners committing shameful acts and will burn in hell.

Exactly this. As they say in another religion 'An it harm none, do what though wilt'. With the former being a prerequisite to the latter.

Just look at some of the ways Christians are described on this thread. I even saw one comment despairing that this couple might breed, and pass their beliefs onto their children. Sure, people are free to be Christians in the UK without harassment or discrimination, as long as they don'tactuallylive out their faith in society or express their beliefs in the workplace or in public.

As long as you're one of those nice Christians that doesn't actually take the Bible seriously, or talk about your faith, you're perfectly safe.

i) With regards to the bit in bold above. That is exactly the way it should be if expressing a belief causes offense. Why would you think it should be any different? Would you advocate for a nazi to be allowed to voice their views that the holocaust was a great thing in your workplace?

ii) Discriminating against discriminators isn't really discrimination (what a mouthful). Christians choose to believe their nonsensical rules, granted many are indoctrinated into it at young age, but it's still a choice. If Christians don't want to be discriminated against for being homophobic then all they need to do is stop being homophobic. It's not hard, literally millions, including some Christians, manage it everyday. You don't even have to stop believe it really, just keep it deep inside your black heart.

iii) Christians shouldn't even take the bible seriously. I mean it's literally a collection of specifically selected tales that tell the story a bunch of men wanted it to tell thousands of years ago. Take the Infancy of James and Infancy of Thomas for example. Both written around the same period of time; James tells the story of the immaculate conception and the birth of Jesus, while Thomas tells of how Jesus was a bit of a dick as a kid. Guess which one was deemed cannon and which was classed as fiction?

Not only that but it's been mistransalted and misinterpreted thousands of times, is filled with contradictions and inaccuracies, and is still to this day reinterpreted to suit the society that it's being preached too. 100 or so years ago it was frowned upon to eat meat on a Friday. Now, not so much.

Tl:dr - keep your beliefs to yourself and you'll not be targeted for being a *t.

@thedancingbear um it is actually common for Christians to be disowned by their families for their beliefs (I've heard such stories personally); there are numerous cases of Christians being physically assaulted for preaching the gospel (at speaker's corner, for example); look on the website of Christian Concern and you'll see pages of cases where Christians have been fired for their beliefs and for being wrongly harassed by police.

I'm quite astounded at the ignorance here about Christian persecution. Thankfully in this country it isn't yet nowhere near as bad as it is in the Middle East, where the level of persecution is coming close to meeting the international definition of genocide and Christianity is close to being wiped out altogether. But we're already seeing Christians arrested for sharing the gospel on the streets and fired from their jobs because they hold to Biblical teaching.

[quote WindInTheWillows7]@thedancingbear um it is actually common for Christians to be disowned by their families for their beliefs (I've heard such stories personally); there are numerous cases of Christians being physically assaulted for preaching the gospel (at speaker's corner, for example); look on the website of Christian Concern and you'll see pages of cases where Christians have been fired for their beliefs and for being wrongly harassed by police.

I'm quite astounded at the ignorance here about Christian persecution. Thankfully in this country it isn't yet nowhere near as bad as it is in the Middle East, where the level of persecution is coming close to meeting the international definition of genocide and Christianity is close to being wiped out altogether. But we're already seeing Christians arrested for sharing the gospel on the streets and fired from their jobs because they hold to Biblical teaching.[/quote]
*and have been wrongly harassed by the police

@FTstepmum

Born-again Christian here, hanging my head... they do not speak for me (and I hope most other Christians) with their audacious homophobia.

They don’t speak for me either, as another committed Christian. Completely batshit as well as shockingly homophobic.

I guess people just have no clue about these stories because the media doesn't report on them, let alone the horrors Christians are faced with globally (such as the 2,400 Christians killed in 2020 in Nigeria, to name just one example).

artichokeleaves - absolutely agree

@Bucanarab *iii) Christians shouldn't even take the bible seriously. I mean it's literally a collection of specifically selected tales that tell the story a bunch of men wanted it to tell thousands of years ago. Take the Infancy of James and Infancy of Thomas for example. Both written around the same period of time; James tells the story of the immaculate conception and the birth of Jesus, while Thomas tells of how Jesus was a bit of a dick as a kid. Guess which one was deemed cannon and which was classed as fiction?

Not only that but it's been mistransalted and misinterpreted thousands of times, is filled with contradictions and inaccuracies, and is still to this day reinterpreted to suit the society that it's being preached too. 100 or so years ago it was frowned upon to eat meat on a Friday. Now, not so much.*

My goodness this is all so so wrong... but if you really want to discuss the historicity (or lack thereof) of the non-canonical gospels, and the accuracy of various Bible translations, I think we'd best start a whole new thread for that.

What's most concerning is you're basically saying Christians shouldn't be tolerated because you think their beliefs are stupid. Good to know that's where you stand. In that case we have nothing more to discuss.

[quote WindInTheWillows7]@thedancingbear um it is actually common for Christians to be disowned by their families for their beliefs (I've heard such stories personally); there are numerous cases of Christians being physically assaulted for preaching the gospel (at speaker's corner, for example); look on the website of Christian Concern and you'll see pages of cases where Christians have been fired for their beliefs and for being wrongly harassed by police.

I'm quite astounded at the ignorance here about Christian persecution. Thankfully in this country it isn't yet nowhere near as bad as it is in the Middle East, where the level of persecution is coming close to meeting the international definition of genocide and Christianity is close to being wiped out altogether. But we're already seeing Christians arrested for sharing the gospel on the streets and fired from their jobs because they hold to Biblical teaching.[/quote]
Again, "because they hold to Biblical teaching" is coded language. We know what you are saying. Christianity does not automatically imply homophobia - you are choosing to be homophobic. That is not a protected stance.

@WindInTheWillows7 All sorts of beliefs may be, in my opinion, silly or wrong. I still tolerate them - up to the point where they drive a harmful action such as discrimination.

What a "Christian" person believes in their own heart of hearts is up to them. It doesn't entitle them to engage in homophobic behaviour.

@Innocenta I don't want to code anything - I'm not at all ashamed of Biblical teaching on sex and marriage and if you'd like me to spell it out and cite Bible verses, I'm happy to do that.
I phrased it that way because these cases don't always relate to beliefs about sexuality (e.g. objecting to sex education lessons because Christians parents or teachers don't want to normalise sex outside of marriage etc, to name one example).

@WindInTheWillows7 You're not at all ashamed to be openly homophobic?

Good for you.

Where has anyone shown any ignorance about persecution of Christians on this thread @WindInTheWillows7 ? Its not lack of knowledge thats stopping people talking about it here, its because thats not what this thread is about. This thread is about homophobia.

I read your post at 0850 this morning (thankfully now deleted) in which you made your views on homosexuality clear. And then you have the nerve to start listing examples which imply that you are part of a persecuted group. Christians are persecuted in many parts of the world. But you here right now? You're not persecuted. Much as you may want to believe otherwise, you're not the victim.

And btw, you don't speak for all of Christiandom, so please stop implying that you do.

(Total side note on such a serious thread, but - wonderful user name, @timshortfforthalia. Indeed, even the staunchest and most traditional RCs have at times shown more empathy and understanding than some posters on this thread...)

Funny how certain Christians cherry-pick bits out of the Bible to take seriously.

Discriminating against people for their sexual orientation (which, happily, is a protected characteristic in the UK).... that's justified because the Bible says to do it.

Putting witches to death, not wearing blended fabrics, following the dietary laws, killing the enemies of God, etc etc also from the Bible....funny but that isn't given equal importance.

I'm glad anyway that this couple didn't give their money to the homeowners, and I hope the latter can't find a buyer. Pah.

@WindInTheWillows7 is that you Dr Brunker?

[quote WindInTheWillows7]@thedancingbear because discrimination against Christians isn't a problem at all in this country, right?[/quote]
Oh, I know, they have a terrible time, don't they? What with the Queen being the head of the Church of England, compulsory Christian worship in schools, church schools funded by the state, the state broadcaster regularly broadcasting Christian services and hymns - the persecution is absolutely horrendous.

@WindInTheWillows7 if you want to start another thread about discrimination against Christian beliefs, that’s fair enough. I’m always sorry to hear about any case where someone is genuinely discriminated against for holding their beliefs. That is equally wrong in my view.

This, however, is a thread about whether discrimination against a gay couple is acceptable in contemporary society. With respect, very few people here have actually argued that Christians are not entitled to their beliefs - no matter how orthodox/unorthodox, or whether we agree with them. I don’t think anyone here is saying that Christians do not have a right to their views or that they should be discriminated against for them. I am certainly not and have tried to be very respectful and reasonable in my responses. I would only take issue when such views are used to actively discriminate against others, such as stopping a gay couple (or indeed any other person) from purchasing something or accessing a service just for being who they are, as in this particular case. It is one thing to hold a belief, it is another to use them as justification for discriminatory behaviour. Just the same as I am entitled not to believe in religious teachings, but I should certainly not be entitled to refuse a transaction or service to a religious person/people as a result. I’m no expert in biblical canon and don’t profess to be; it’s actually quite interesting as a text, but I do take issue with it being used to justify treating families like mine in such a way for just wanting to go about our lives like anyone else.

@BashStreetKid
" Oh, I know, they have a terrible time, don't they? What with the Queen being the head of the Church of England, compulsory Christian worship in schools, church schools funded by the state, the state broadcaster regularly broadcasting Christian services and hymns - the persecution is absolutely horrendous."

Wtf are you on about?!

What is it about @BashStreetKid post that you find so confusing?

What is it about @BashStreetKid post that you find so confusing?
Yeah, it's pretty straightforward.
Just read it and completely clear!
Think there was a dose of sarcasm in there for anyone who maybe missed it/not English as a first language if that was the excuse?
As in oh, yeah, so hard done by, with C of E schools, Queen etc....
(insert Bill and Ted style NOTTT lol)
Although I've seen this attitude before though with transphobic and racist views on here.
Not saying this is the case here fuckyourpronouns but people genuinely cannot or will not see if they're being genuinely bigoted, whether it be homophobic, racist or transphobic.

Not saying this is the case here... That's pretty generous of you @EeeICouldRipATissue

Given that the poster in question is called fuckyourpronouns, id imagine that her loyalties lie with the couple using aggressive, judgemental language to intimidate a marginalised minority