To think this couple's attitude has no place in modern society?

[Georama]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10419543/Christian-couple-ban-gay-man-partner-buying-dream-650-000-sexuality.html

A church-going wife who banned a gay man and his ITV producer partner from buying her £650,000 Surrey home has hit back in the row and insisted they are just sticking to their beliefs.

Luke Whitehouse and Lachlan Mantell were stunned when they were told that they could not buy the three-bedroom home because the Christian owners didn't want to sell to 'two men in a partnership.'

Honestly, they should be ashamed of that text. I hope no estate agent will work with them ever again.

The constant attempts to draw equivalence between the two "sides" here are very disingenuous.

It's not a simple question of both parties having the same right to express their beliefs and follow their chosen lifestyles in peace. At all.

One "side" wants to be allowed to go about their perfectly normal and entirely legal business, buy a house, have a job, live with a partner, that sort of thing, without being discriminated against.

The other "side" wants the right to put road blocks in the way of other people's activities in the name of their religious beliefs. To discriminate against them, exclude them, and even send them abusive and threatening messages (which is what religious denunciations of one's very being ARE, to those who haven't swallowed the Good Book).

There's no equivalence there. It's not about freedom to practice their religion in peace. It's about their incredibly arrogant assumption of a right they don't have - to curtail other people's lives on the basis of religious beliefs that aren't shared.

@Bitofachinwag

I agree Flutterflybutterby

What were you agreeing with? It’s been removed as it beached guidelines so unfortunately I can’t see what they posted, but I would love to know!

@sadpapercourtesan

The constant attempts to draw equivalence between the two "sides" here are very disingenuous.

It's not a simple question of both parties having the same right to express their beliefs and follow their chosen lifestyles in peace. At all.

One "side" wants to be allowed to go about their perfectly normal and entirely legal business, buy a house, have a job, live with a partner, that sort of thing, without being discriminated against.

The other "side" wants the right to put road blocks in the way of other people's activities in the name of their religious beliefs. To discriminate against them, exclude them, and even send them abusive and threatening messages (which is what religious denunciations of one's very being ARE, to those who haven't swallowed the Good Book).

There's no equivalence there. It's not about freedom to practice their religion in peace. It's about their incredibly arrogant assumption of a right they don't have - to curtail other people's lives on the basis of religious beliefs that aren't shared.

Exactly this.

Just imagine if everyone did what the Christian couple had here.

Gay people would not be able to own their own, practice a religion, would not be guaranteed service in a shop, would potentially face persecution at every touch and turn.

Frightening. Yet there are people whose attitude is 'it's legal so I don't give a fuck'.

Still no one has answered the question of how it is in the public interest to identify the Christian couple in a national newspaper, given there has been no prosecution, or what identifying them actually achieves?

@BoredZelda

Mostly I'm going to expect people to comply with the relevant law, which is referenced above, and which does indeed affect how people dispose of their property

Except it actually doesn't.

Could you explain this, @BoredZelda?

@Ploppy1322

Who the hell cares who buys the house they move out of? I never even met my buyers and know nothing about them, batshit crazy!

I did. Because my late mum's neighbour is a difficult person and didn't want to rile him.

@Omicrone

Still no one has answered the question of how it is in the public interest to identify the Christian couple in a national newspaper, given there has been no prosecution, or what identifying them actually achieves?

Ask the Daily Mail?

@Omicrone

Still no one has answered the question of how it is in the public interest to identify the Christian couple in a national newspaper, given there has been no prosecution, or what identifying them actually achieves?

(i) So people know to fucking stay away from them, because they are bigoted cunts

(ii) to highlight that, unfortunately, homophobia is still a massive problem in this country. It manifests in schools, in the police force, when people apply for jobs, when they try to find somewhere to live. Everywhere. If people can see concrete examples and appreciate that this is not just something that happens in the abstract, then they can hopefully understand better why it is something that still needs to be fought.

(iii) because the idea that we should be shut down from knowing and talking about these things - on the basis that it is not 'in the public interest' - is frightening. As I am sure you will agree, if we don't exercise our right to free speech, we risk losing it.

Will that do for you?

Yes, freedom of speech works both ways. So I agree with They're free to spout their homophobia. And I am equally free to say that I think they are fucking bigoted cunts.

@thedancingbear because discrimination against Christians isn't a problem at all in this country, right?

‘ Still no one has answered the question of how it is in the public interest to identify the Christian couple in a national newspaper, given there has been no prosecution, or what identifying them actually achieves?’

Let’s see. Perhaps the negative reaction to what they have done might make them analyse their views and come to the conclusion that homophobia is wrong.
Or that actually taking the batshit crazy bits from the bible to justify actions perhaps isn’t what God would want.
Or to realise that everyone deserves the right to lead their lives without prejudice and bigotry affecting that life.
Or perhaps it will temper their open bigotry against gay people in future for fear of consequences.
Or perhaps it will make others, reading the article, re-evaluate their own prejudices and realise that this kind of discrimination is wrong and should be called out.Everysingle time.
To make people realise homophobia is alive and kicking in this country, and we need everyone ( not just the gays) to call it out everytime so that their gay child or friend or sister or brother or colleague doesn’t have to face this kind of blatant, unfettered prejudice in the future.

Or maybe, just maybe, it’s the fact that a gay couple have had the chance to stand up and publicly say - this is wrong. Instead of putting up with bigotry and prejudice quietly as many LGBTQ+ people have had to do for decades because no-one would have cared, or taken their side.

[quote WindInTheWillows7]@thedancingbear because discrimination against Christians isn't a problem at all in this country, right?[/quote]
If people refused to sell their house to prospective buyers because the buyers were Christians and the sellers didn't like Christianity, I would absolutely feel that the sellers were bigoted fuckwits and should be exposed as such.

@WindInTheWillows7 Not aware that discrimination against Christians is a significant issue in this country. I’m certainly not aware of many (if any) cases where Christians have been physical assaulted, denied the right to marry or regularly told they are not fit to have children (all personal experiences). I certainly hope it is not in any case, as that would be equally abhorrent. Nobody deserves to face any kind of discrimination: Christians, gay people or anyone else for that matter.

[quote WindInTheWillows7]@thedancingbear because discrimination against Christians isn't a problem at all in this country, right?[/quote]
Next time you get chased down the street, called a 'fucking christian cunt' and have two teeth smashed out, come and tell me.

Next time you're kicked out of your family home aged 16 and disowned by your parents and grandparents because you are Christian, come and tell me.

Next time you get hounded out of your job for being gay, and can't pay your mortgage, and end up evicted, come and tell me.

Next time the police decline to properly investigate a series of murders because the victims were christian (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Port) come and tell me.

Don't you dare compare the bigotry and persecution that gay people have suffered over the decades with anything that has been directed at xians in this country. Don't you fucking dare.

‘
WindInTheWillows7
@thedancingbear because discrimination against Christians isn't a problem at all in this country, right?’

So show me the examples of Christians being refused a house viewing by the owners because they find the Christian ‘lifestyle’ abhorrent?
Go for it, we can wait.

If people refused to sell their house to prospective buyers because the buyers were Christians and the sellers didn't like Christianity, I would absolutely feel that the sellers were bigoted fuckwits and should be exposed as such.

Show me where this has happened, or anything like it. One fucking example.

[quote WindInTheWillows7]@thedancingbear because discrimination against Christians isn't a problem at all in this country, right?[/quote]
This comparison is insulting, crass, and ultimately risible. You are only illustrating how little you understand what discrimination really means. @WindInTheWillows7

@thedancingbear

So sorry you've been subjected to that, honestly people sicken me sometimes.

[quote EeeICouldRipATissue]@thedancingbear

So sorry you've been subjected to that, honestly people sicken me sometimes.[/quote]
Thank you @EeeICouldRipATissue. To be clear, these aren't things that have happened to me, but (with the exception of the last, which was of course widely reported) they have happened to people I know.

Just look at some of the ways Christians are described on this thread. I even saw one comment despairing that this couple might breed, and pass their beliefs onto their children. Sure, people are free to be Christians in the UK without harassment or discrimination, as long as they don't actually live out their faith in society or express their beliefs in the workplace or in public.
christianconcern.com/cccases/the-bristol-four/
christianconcern.com/cccases/seyi-omooba/
christianconcern.com/cccases/andrew-sathiyavan/
christianconcern.com/cccases/hatun-tash/
christianconcern.com/cccases/hazel-lewis/

As long as you're one of those nice Christians that doesn't actually take the Bible seriously, or talk about your faith, you're perfectly safe.

And when Christians are discriminated against, it's not just by individuals and private organisations (such as Cambridge refusing to allow a Christian organisation to hire rooms for a conference, which they had held there for years), but is overwhelmingly by the police and employers.

‘ I even saw one comment despairing that this couple might breed, and pass their beliefs onto their children. ’

That might have been me, but I certainly didn’t use the word ‘breed’ and I said I would despair of them passing their bigoted, homophobic views into their children. Not a Christian faith. Most of my family still go to church, baptise their kids etc etc none of which I have an issue with, and even if I didn’t I certainly wouldn’t discriminate against them in any way.
Trying to derail their original post with some bullshit about Christians in the U.K. ( a predominantly Christian country where every state school in England is still required to provide a daily act of worship that is “wholly or mainly” Christian in character ) being as persecuted and discriminated against as gay people is clearly nonsense.
Your faith doesn’t give you the right to discriminate against LGBTQ+ people. Something that thankfully many peopleOf faith have already managed to grasp.

I love that the example
Of one of those ‘persecuted’ Christians is the homophobic actor who’s theatre company fired her from a gay role … they dropped her because they realised that many of the people coming to watch The Color Purple which has a lesbian relationship at the heart of it wouldn’t bother turning up to watch a homophobe playing that role.FFS.
She’s free to going and get any other acting role, no-one is persecuting her on a daily basis for anything. Insure as hell
Wouldn’t have wanted to have watched a homophobe in a LGBT play.

@Isaw3ships

‘ I even saw one comment despairing that this couple might breed, and pass their beliefs onto their children. ’

That might have been me, but I certainly didn’t use the word ‘breed’ and I said I would despair of them passing their bigoted, homophobic views into their children. Not a Christian faith. Most of my family still go to church, baptise their kids etc etc none of which I have an issue with, and even if I didn’t I certainly wouldn’t discriminate against them in any way.
Trying to derail their original post with some bullshit about Christians in the U.K. ( a predominantly Christian country where every state school in England is still required to provide a daily act of worship that is “wholly or mainly” Christian in character ) being as persecuted and discriminated against as gay people is clearly nonsense.
Your faith doesn’t give you the right to discriminate against LGBTQ+ people. Something that thankfully many peopleOf faith have already managed to grasp.

Well orthodox views on marriage are extremely basic elements of the Christian faith - so you are despairing of and insulting Christian couples who teach their children the Bible.

@Omicrone

Still no one has answered the question of how it is in the public interest to identify the Christian couple in a national newspaper, given there has been no prosecution, or what identifying them actually achieves?

Its in the public interest to know discrimination and homophobia is alive and kicking. Too many people without direct experience think that now we have equality legislation its not a thing anymore, and people should be grateful its not the 1960s snd they're 'allowed' to be gay these days. Anyone suggesting there's more to be done or issues still exist, is accused of being woke or 'going too far'. I think its important that incidents that show the reality are brought to the attention of the public and awareness is raised.