Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall?

998 replies

GrendelsGrandma · 19/01/2022 07:27

I know he'll be replaced by someone equally awful and I know he's not quite gone yet, but I can't remember when I felt uplifted about politics and the ejection of this national embarrassment is warming my cockles. Anyone else feel the same?

OP posts:
jgw1 · 20/01/2022 18:16

@NiceShrubbery

It's actually 2022 but my phone is still as crap as it was last year.
The more important question surely is which year Jacob Rees Mogg is in this week.
merrymouse · 20/01/2022 18:16

Do you not see that it is ludicrous to imagine that the person who has to go around the world representing the country at G7 and G10 meetings, not to mention COP, who runs cabinet meetings, who has to appear in the Commons and represent his Uxbridge constituents has spare time to manage the 170 civil servants who work in No.10?

You think he was going around the world in May 2020?

Blossomtoes · 20/01/2022 18:20

If the PM has no jurisdiction over civil servants, why did he admit that he should have sent them inside on 20 May 2020?

Hawkins001 · 20/01/2022 18:22

@ClaudineClare

Boris is one person, the structure and the establishment, the other people behind the scenes will all be their, so really what is actually achieved ?

If we took that view, we would never try to change anything@Hawkins001. Change is very often achieved one step at a time. Johnson being properly held to account for his actions could be a small step towards cleaning up politics.

I understand your perspectives, but maybe I'm too cynical, it will in all likelihood not alter a thing, or it it does, it will be behind the scenes, as for cleaning up politics, yea, ......
Cam22 · 20/01/2022 18:30

Yep. 🎉🎉🎉

NiceShrubbery · 20/01/2022 18:32

The more important question surely is which year Jacob Rees Mogg is in this week

That was quite funny.

Probably kinder in the long run to put Moggface and Boris in the Tardis. Just not sure which century would suit best.

FatFredsFriedEgg · 20/01/2022 19:17

@Florianus

For the terminally hard of understanding, I will point out yet again that the person who runs the civil service at No.10 is called the Chief of Staff. The clue is in the name: Chief of Staff.

For the terminally hard of understanding (you apparently): This is not true.

I do not support Johnson, but I am keen to see the person who ran these parties - the one who ordered the cheese board and sent out the invitations, punished. I really do not see why a number of people here are so deluded that they think it would be a good thing to blame and punish the wrong person.

As far as I know the only 'invitations' we've seen were sent by Martin Reynolds, the Prime Minister's Personal Private Secretary, rather than the Chief of Staff Dan Rosenfield.

According to Wikipedia "The Downing Street chief of staff is the most senior political appointee in the Office of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, acting as a senior aide to the prime minister, a powerful, non-ministerial position within Her Majesty's Government." So that's Dan Rosenfield - a political appointee of the PM, who (as far as I know) didn't send any invitations, although he's apparently alleged to have attended some of the (allegedly) illegal parties.

The person who sent the invitations we know about was Martyn Reynolds, the PM's Principal Private Secretary, who used the term 'we' in sending the invitations. That 'we' could presumably have been him and Larry the cat, him and the cleaning staff, or him (as the person who runs the Prime Minister's Office) and the Prime Minister.

llanfair11 · 20/01/2022 19:20

Feeling joyful about Mr Johnson's downfall would be like celebrating Harold Shipman's death. Think instead of the thousands of people who are dead because of Mr Johnson's inactions or actions, and whose loved ones could not have a funeral attended by all who loved the deceased.

ClaudineClare · 20/01/2022 19:32

Rosenfield is Spad not a civil servant, @florianus. He was a civil servant at one point, but left public service s while ago. Civil servants are not answerable to Spads, civil servants pretty much despise Spads (and vice versa!).

Hawkins001 · 20/01/2022 19:37

@llanfair11

Feeling joyful about Mr Johnson's downfall would be like celebrating Harold Shipman's death. Think instead of the thousands of people who are dead because of Mr Johnson's inactions or actions, and whose loved ones could not have a funeral attended by all who loved the deceased.
With or without Boris, as many country's did, restrictions would of happened would they not ?
ClaudineClare · 20/01/2022 19:43

Spads are very different creatures to civil servants. I suppose they are technically "temporary" civil servants, but they are not impartial, which civil servants are. This is one of the reasons why civil servants are not answerable to them.

But I am sure @florianus will tell me I am wrong...

llanfair11 · 20/01/2022 19:45

@Hawkins001 if Mr Johnson had not been missing COBRA meetings and dithering, many fewer people would have died, and restrictions would have been for a shorter time.

FatFredsFriedEgg · 20/01/2022 19:46

It's always entertaining when someone uses the For the terminally hard of understanding... line followed by a statement that is easily provable as incorrect. @Florianus

What I can't decide is whether this demonstrates that the average Boris Johnson supporter is thick, stubborn and blind-to-the-facts or whether it demonstrates that the Tory party's normal (paid) MN posters are demanding unacceptably higher rates for trying to defend the indefensible.

ClaudineClare · 20/01/2022 20:00

Maybe Florianus is a Spad, or maybe a lackey to a Spad. They do sometimes imagine they are in charge of civil servants. Until they get told to fuck off by a civil servant.

Didn't Cummings get slapped down for attempting to recruit staff to No. 10? Perhaps he too misunderstood the role of Chief of Staff.

Hawkins001 · 20/01/2022 20:01

[quote llanfair11]@Hawkins001 if Mr Johnson had not been missing COBRA meetings and dithering, many fewer people would have died, and restrictions would have been for a shorter time.[/quote]
Is that a confirmed analysis or an presumed outcome ?

FatFredsFriedEgg · 20/01/2022 20:26

Actually is the title "Principal Private Secretary" rather than "Personal Private Secretary"? I can find plenty of references to both but I think it's 'Principal'.

I'm loath to quote Wikipedia too much but "The private secretary is the principal link between a government minister and officials in the department or ministry. He or she has overall responsibility for coordinating the development of the minister's policy remit, ensuring that the decisions of the minister are clearly and fully implemented by the department. "

So directions made by a Private Secretary, never mind a Principal Private Secretary, are taken as if they're made by the Minister themselves.

KTheGrey · 20/01/2022 21:04

Horrible person imo. Also I genuinely.wonder if anybody could be as corrupt and as embarrassing on the world stage.

FatFredsFriedEgg · 20/01/2022 21:13

@KTheGrey

Horrible person imo. Also I genuinely.wonder if anybody could be as corrupt and as embarrassing on the world stage.
Frank Gallagher? He also knows how to throw a party!
ClaudineClare · 20/01/2022 21:14

So directions made by a Private Secretary, never mind a Principal Private Secretary, are taken as if they're made by the Minister themselves

Yep, but directions will be made according to a minister's wishes. For example a PS or PPS will basically summarise to a minister the advice a civil servant has given about a particular issue. The minister will then communicate their decision based on that advice back to the civil servant via the PS or PPS.

FatFredsFriedEgg · 20/01/2022 21:20

@ClaudineClare

So directions made by a Private Secretary, never mind a Principal Private Secretary, are taken as if they're made by the Minister themselves

Yep, but directions will be made according to a minister's wishes. For example a PS or PPS will basically summarise to a minister the advice a civil servant has given about a particular issue. The minister will then communicate their decision based on that advice back to the civil servant via the PS or PPS.

Quite, 'we thought it would be nice to make the most of this lovely weather'!

I thought it would be nice to take the dog for yet another walk.

FatFredsFriedEgg · 20/01/2022 21:23

WE thought. Not I thought.

A decision of the PM's, communicated through his PPS. How else could it be interpreted by the staff (and indeed by any 'political appointees' who also may have attended)?

ClaudineClare · 20/01/2022 21:37

Yes, that we meant "the PM and I", I would bet my house on it. What else could it possibly mean? But I also bet my house that Johnson will wriggle out of it somehow

Hawkins001 · 20/01/2022 21:45

@KTheGrey

Horrible person imo. Also I genuinely.wonder if anybody could be as corrupt and as embarrassing on the world stage.
What evidence do you have that suggests corruption ?
FatFredsFriedEgg · 20/01/2022 21:46

@ClaudineClare

Yes, that we meant "the PM and I", I would bet my house on it. What else could it possibly mean? But I also bet my house that Johnson will wriggle out of it somehow
My point exactly.

He might wriggle out of it officially but a lot of us have seen through it.

FatFredsFriedEgg · 20/01/2022 21:51

@Hawkins001 What evidence do you have that suggests corruption ?

lmgtfy.app/?q=boris+corruption

It's not really 'evidence' but feel free to read all 12+ million pages to establish your own opinion.