To ask would you still vote Tory after everything Boris has done and if so, why?

[bookworm1982]

My husband and I were talking about this over dinner and I'm genuinely interested in people's answers (not looking to wind anyone up).

And was it the Tories who just yesterday voted down making misogyny a hate crime?
Care about womens rights my arse. Would you just open your eyes and have a look if you think that.

@Mountaingoat12

I live in Scotland so I’d vote for any party whatsoever if it was the party most likely to beat the snp in my constituency. But I wouldn’t if I had a choice, and I wouldn’t vote for any of the current cabinet if they were to succeed Boris, with the exception of Ben Wallace seems to know what he’s doing in defence. All of the rest of them are just unbelievablely appalling - it’s a joke!

Exactly this.

I'm not a natural Conservative voter, I am the classic "floating voter" who has voted for them all at some point in the past apart from the SNP. I loathe Nicola Sturgeon more than I loathe anyone else in politics so if the Conservatives were the best option to give her a kicking so be it.

Johnson's clearly an arse, but I do think Sunak has handled Covid well.

@Magicpaintbrush

I will never NEVER vote for the Conservatives as long as I live. My reasons are:

1- They fucked over the pension of my DH and other public sector workers by changing the law to change their pension contract - forcing them to work an additional 11 years to claim the pension they should have had anyway.

2- Zero integrity - the sleaze, the lies, the entitled manner in which they conduct themselves.

3- the total shit show they have made of running the country - brexit, living costs rising at their fastest for 30 years, which is the tip of that shitty iceberg.

Boris is like the fucking Captain of the Titanic. Now we're all stuck on a sinking ship because of the incompetents in charge.

If he left and a more credible candidate became PM would that change your mind?

I think Boris needs to go but if someone more competent and honest took his place who knew what he was doing and put good policies into place and sorted problems out I would consider voting Tory next time.

@AutumnAlmanack

Yes, I will still vote Conservative. I have voted for them all my life because I believe in their values and most of their policies, such as low taxes, encouraging hard work and allowing people to enjoy the money they have made, or inherited as the case may be. I do not agree with Trade Unions or strikes, and I believe their immigration policy is more reasonable than that of Labour, although I do agree they need to actually put it into practice.

I would never vote Labour in a million years.

The Tories are demonstrably not the party of "low taxes" - that's factually incorrect. As far as encouraging hard work - I don't see that in their own ranks much do you?

@Mountaingoat12

I live in Scotland so I’d vote for any party whatsoever if it was the party most likely to beat the snp in my constituency. But I wouldn’t if I had a choice, and I wouldn’t vote for any of the current cabinet if they were to succeed Boris, with the exception of Ben Wallace seems to know what he’s doing in defence. All of the rest of them are just unbelievablely appalling - it’s a joke!

Same here. Whoever can beat the SNP gets my vote. Boris is awful but I'd hold my nose and vote for them to beat the Nats if required

@Kendodd

And was it the Tories who just yesterday voted down making misogyny a hate crime? Care about womens rights my arse. Would you just open your eyes and have a look if you think that.

To be fair, we don't have the resources to make misogyny a hate crime. No where near enough police. Then there's the fact that many of the other group protected by hate crime laws enjoy sending rape threats etc to women via twitter. So who wins out. And I agree the Conservatives brought in self I'd and are bad for women in many ways

They are just the least worst option.
Which should tell you something really.

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

A good example of why voting has turned tribal on this thread. Labour supporters and candidates instead of engaging with valid concerns:

Accuse people of being well off
Accuse people of being old
Accuse them of being one issue voters whilst telling them which one issue is more important than others(eg. Poverty, women's rights)
Call anyone with genuine concerns names like bigot, racist, gammon. Ignoring the concern in favour of name calling.
Bully those in their own parties who dare represent the nuances views of the public rather than tow the ideological idealised party line.
Never offer anything practical or achievable. Just sound bites.
Call people that vote for the conservatives thick. It comes across as very arrogant and dismissive of the voting public.

Although this started as a one issue voting thing for me, I don't think I can I see the nastiness of the party and their supporters. It's at least taught me to be a but more tolerant of others, so at least that is something.

I imagine that I am included in this, as I have indeed questioned the wisdom and thinking processes behind voting Tory in the basis of their stance on women. I haven't been rude to anyone, though.

FWIW, I am not a Labour Party supporter. I regard myself as politically homeless and really struggled to know who to vote for in the last election. I am not happy about Labour's stance on women in the slightest. The Lib Dems and the Greens are sadly no better. I am also no fan of Keir Starmer, who hasn't turned the Labour Party around as I had hoped. I agree with those who are saying that we were presented with dire options at the last election.

I have nothing against people who are middle class or comfortable. I fall into that category myself tbh, but my work brings me into contact with a lot of people who are at the thin end of the wedge of this Tory government's policies, and things are pretty dire at the moment. I can only assume that the people who aren't really concerned about how bad things have got are simply unaware of what's happening. I can't believe that many would continue voting Tory if they knew.

I think Boris needs to go but if someone more competent and honest took his place who knew what he was doing and put good policies into place and sorted problems out I would consider voting Tory next time.

Which of the Tory PMs of the last decade actually fit that bill? I can’t see many problems having been sorted while they’ve been in power and and awful lot created. Did Cameron do a good job unleashing unneeded austerity and Brexit? Theresa May and her batshit manifesto of grammar schools and fox hunting? What makes you think it’s just a Boris problem?

[quote AutumnAlmanack]@Pinkyantelope - the Conservatives did not 'drag' the country into Brexit. It was what the majority voted for - they were merely putting the wishes of the majority into effect.[/quote]
Yeah they did.

The referendum only happened because Cameron was scared of losing a few seats to UKIP.

The pro-brexit campaign group was made up predominantly of tories.

The tories fucked the entire negotiation up.

The pro-voters were overwhelmingly made up of older, more affluent tory voters who will suffer least of all from leaving the EU.

Who else is to blame apart from a few other fuckwits like Farage?

I can't believe that many would continue voting Tory if they knew.
I can. A lot of people seem to love a race to the bottom and blaming poor people for being "feckless".
There's a lot of nasty uncaring people in the UK.

I'll take indifference and expediency (they want our votes) over active harm, as is the Labour offering.

I understand that point of view, and tbh, I agree with it. Where we differ is that I am seeing massive active harm arising from our current government's policies on a daily basis. And that is what drives my voting intentions.

Re the SNP and indy.

It's bigger than the SNP. An independent Scotland doesn't need the SNP to run it, it would just mean detachment from a corrupt Westminster government that gives not a tiny shit about Scotland. I'm no particular fan of Sturgeon but she is a vastly more credible leader than fucking Boris, and she won't be FM for ever.

I’m not scared of the prospect of Labour. What’s the worst they can do? The self id is clearly an issue, but look at the people who are leading the country now:

Boris Johnson - lies all the time, is a National and international disgrace. Lied to get a damaging Brexit through in order to please his backers who made a fortune out of betting on the outcome.
Dominic Rabb, who didn’t want to disrupt his holiday to save afghans.
Rishi Sunak, who wrote off billions of fraud this week - £65 of fraud for every man woman and child in the country if my sums aren’t wrong)
Liz Truss, who shamefully heralds international trade agreements which make our country poorer and drastically reduce the likes of food standards. She also seeks to withdraw the NI protocol, despite NI viewing it positively.
Nadine Dorries wanting to get rid of the bbc as it is not Tory enough.

Each and every one of them who has tweeted support of the PM’s shameful lies.

They are dire, just dire. No moral compass at all. What would Labour do that’s worse?

(And yes, even though I say the above I’d still vote for them over the SNP. That’s how seriously dangerous the prospect of an independent Scotland is!)

The SNP support independence. Independence would utterly destroy Scotland. Utterly destroy it.

Mystified by the 'Vote Tory to deprive SNP' I find this pathetic.
At the last election across 6 polling stations that our local branch cover as polling agents, SNP were the only party that had representatives, the other parties in Scotland do nothing and do not care, they barely even do any campaigning.
Voting out of spite, just save your vote.

I imagine that I am included in this
I was thinking more of the poster who wished death on Conservative voters or the one that called them stupid.
Thin end of the wedge
Which is fine. I respect you as someone who has an opinion based on what they see working with vulnerable people. I work with vulnerable people too. Will you respect my opinion that self Id is going to be more damaging in the long term. Teens undergoing unnecessary surgery. Men in women's political roles. Men taking over women's sports. Rapists in women's prisons. We draw our own conclusions about what is best to stop the rot and I think it is forcing parties to do a u turn of their policies become unpopular. You think voting in a party then trying to change their mind on a clearly communicated aim is best.

If you can understand I hold a different belief to you in the best way to manage this shit show then, no you aren't included in that category. If you lecture me on why xyz is more important without engaging with the realities of both methods, then you do.

Tolerance. It's important.

The ones who voted for Brexit do tend to forget that nearly half the population didn't vote for it at all and won't give up the fight. The same as the ones who didn't want to join the EU didn't ' give up' either, it took them years and years to get to this point.
It won't go just go away , not when millions aren't happy about it (whatever your point of view on it. )
Brexit is the reason we have the leader we have and where we are now.
I've never voted tory , but the Labour Party are not doing anything for me either :(
No idea who to vote for to be honest.

Why would I vote Labour:

Yes @daimbarsatemydogsbone
I’ve been rich & also very poor. The idea that the working class just aren’t working hard enough is just BS. Sometimes people are just bloody lucky! The sheer ENTITLED policies of conservatives is damaging and divisive.

I guess just the idea that FAIRNESS is important makes me want to vote Labour.

(Plus they didn’t spend £billions on a useless Test & Trace scheme, wasted £ on flimsy PPE, didn’t run the NHS into the ground, didn’t fail to adequately financially assist self-employed workers hit by the pandemic etc etc etc)

Why would I vote Tory?
They’re not Keir Starmer. (Who just seems a bit feeble, sorry. Why does he not disagree with Cons more??

… Maybe if Miliband were in charge…? He’s still an MP, isn’t he??

I think the answer comes down to the alternatives. I didn't want to vote Conservative in the last election, but I did because I couldn't see a viable alternative, unfortunately . I am very aware of the virtue signaling, eroding of women's rights and what I see as child abuse re encouragement of transitioning/gender ID etc. for youngsters that the alternatives are jumping on. There are many policies from the Tories that I agree with, regardless of who leads, and unless one of the smaller, newer, parties come through with a chance of gaining seats, I don't see any alternative in the next election. If Labour were in charge, we would all still be in lockdown by then and voting virtually.

@Hapoydayz

Yes I'd vote tory. The opposition parties are a very scary prospect in comparison.

This.

I understand that point of view, and tbh, I agree with it. Where we differ is that I am seeing massive active harm arising from our current government's policies on a daily basis. And that is what drives my voting intentions.

See, this is how reasonable people disagree. Appreciated.

I work with very vulnerable people. I'm not in a great situation myself on various metrics. I should be the corest of core Labour voters, but I'm not. I think there's often a lot of common ground, though, in what the problem is - when I speak to other tory-voting women (we identify each other via hand signals), it's not me, me, mine, mine. We want to prioritise the people most in need and alleviate suffering.

It's 'what set of policies would best achieve this?' where we tend to differ from our Labour sisters.

So the Tories introduced Self ID? I’m surprised. Some Tories have been at least vocal about women’s rights not being sabotaged by the trans movement!

I had wrongly assumed that was a Labour policy.

Women should not have to fear being raped in a women’s prison FFS.

To be honest I waver between thinking that I will vote Conservative, to spoiling my ballot, to voting for the representative of my local area who assured me via letter that he doesn't support self I'd, but his party does.

However, the child in me, when I see people dismissing Conservative voters as thick or selfish or evil makes me want to go with the first option. I will look at the manifestos closer to the time of course, and use tactical voting, but the "Tories are thick" narrative isn't going to sway me back to Labour. Who I have voted for every time, apart from the lib Dems when the coalition happened.

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

I imagine that I am included in this I was thinking more of the poster who wished death on Conservative voters or the one that called them stupid. Thin end of the wedge Which is fine. I respect you as someone who has an opinion based on what they see working with vulnerable people. I work with vulnerable people too. Will you respect my opinion that self Id is going to be more damaging in the long term. Teens undergoing unnecessary surgery. Men in women's political roles. Men taking over women's sports. Rapists in women's prisons. We draw our own conclusions about what is best to stop the rot and I think it is forcing parties to do a u turn of their policies become unpopular. You think voting in a party then trying to change their mind on a clearly communicated aim is best.

If you can understand I hold a different belief to you in the best way to manage this shit show then, no you aren't included in that category. If you lecture me on why xyz is more important without engaging with the realities of both methods, then you do.

Tolerance. It's important.

I respect your point of view, yes. I just don't understand it.

I share your concern about a lot of the issues that you outline in your post, but what I see is that these things are already happening under Tory rule. The fact that the Tories at least seem to understand basic biology hasn't actually prevented any of this nonsense from happening. And in the meantime, life just gets worse and worse for the most vulnerable in our society.

If women's rights were actually being respected under Tory rule, I would understand your perspective much better. But I don't see that they are. Self ID may not yet be enshrined in law, but it is de facto being implemented in so many spheres. I do understand the importance of maintaining protection for women in the law. I am just not seeing much of that protection actually being enforced as things stand at the moment. And the law is only useful if it actually works to protect people.

@Mountaingoat12

The SNP support independence. Independence would utterly destroy Scotland. Utterly destroy it.

No it wouldn't, and certainly no more than Westminster is destroying the UK all by itself.