To ask would you still vote Tory after everything Boris has done and if so, why?

[bookworm1982]

My husband and I were talking about this over dinner and I'm genuinely interested in people's answers (not looking to wind anyone up).

@WorriedMumsDontSleep, why do you think voting Conservative will prevent damage to women's rights? We know that they want to water down and, in some instances, remove maternity and equality rights, and rights to abortion: why is that acceptable to you?

@Snugglepumpkin

If there is a choice of Labour, Lib Dem, Green or Conservative I have to vote for the only party who haven't actually announced they hate women.

Unfortunately that means voting Conservative as they haven't actually said that yet.

If there is an independent who is Gender Critical I'd vote for them but nothing will make me vote for the other 3.

I think any woman voting for Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens nowadays is a turkey voting for Christmas so it doesn't matter what their other policies are or if they might be better.

Oh, come off it. Judge them by their actions. Of course the Conservatives hate women.

@giggly

You believe the tories build better foundations for the country? Are you on strong drugs

Must be . More like sinking foundations. The tories are more interested in the short term, keeping the right wing press on their side and staying in power no matter how much damage they do or how much suffering they cause.

@BashStreetKid.

Like I said, my first choice would be a GC independent.

Where I live hardly anyone bothers to stand as the local Conservative (who doesn't seem to give a toss about women even though he has a wife & daughters) wins every time, so we'll be lucky to have even one independent to vote for.

I don't think the Conservatives like women very much (if at all), but I think they hate them fractionally less than the parties who are already outright declaring they will take womens rights away if they get into power.

I don't think voting Conservative will prevent damage to women's rights. I think it will stop self I'd which undermines the whole concept of women's rights. Can't even conceive of maternity rights without the concept of women. Women need to be able to organise as a group with specific needs. As I said upthread, with many factors that make our family vulnerable it is not an easy decision, but I think it's the best of some extraordinary bad choices. Fact that Boris is at the helm actually makes it marginally less scary. The man is so lazy I can't see him putting any drastic changes through. Just look at Scotland at the dangerous combination of idealistic, tone death and single minded purpose.

I don't think labour hate women. They either consider them lesser beings or public resources to be used to facilitate men's mental health conditions.

Self ID is a Tory proposal.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Self ID is a Tory proposal.

Not exclusively. Self ID has been prioritised over women in Libs, Dem and Greens time and time again.

Make no mistake, either vote spoiling or voting Conservative because of Self ID etc is not a ringing endorsement for the conservative party. It's a sign that people are not happy with the direction Labour have gone/are going.
And instead of questioning it, or changing tack, Labour have doubled down. Calling women names, bigot and dinosaurs. They've said they don't want my vote.
So I'm taking them at their word. Of they want to keep ideologically pure and not have GC women vote for them, happy to oblige.

And I'm tired. Dead tired of being told I am stupid. Or rich. Tired of being told that this is not a big issue and to balk at it I'm feministing wrong. That there's so much to sort out before this. And then we'll get to women. We've mean meaning to get around to prioritising women for thousands of years now. There's always something else that bumps it to the back of the queue.

People can call me stupid as much as they like, I am allowed to vote according to my priorities and perception. And despite having a disability/Sen/low-income family, I have decided this is important to me. People think they have to the right to decide what's best for me, for my family, how I should vote. And if I don't agree I'm ignorant and stupid(so snobby). Everyone is entitled to exactly one vote as it stands and if people want to convince me to do something different with it they need to show how they are going to address the concerns. Not bat them away. Not dismiss them. Not level accusations at the opposition.

Labour, if you want my vote you have to earn it.

voting Conservative because of Self ID etc is not a ringing endorsement for the conservative party
Voting for a party is a ringing endorsement for that party - we only have one vote each so who you vote for is a supreme expression that you want that party to rule.

I have always voted for the party that best represented my needs at the time. Never to my knowledge have I agreed with absolutely everything they propose. It's a model of best fit.

This 'I am a Tory' I endorse everything they do, say and represent is not representative of the large number of people that vote that way. What you are describing are tribal politics. It totally ignores the floating voters,.one issue voters etc.

And I haven't decided yet if spoil or vote. I might start a tally. Twenty accusations of ignorance, selfishness or rich and I will protest vote conservative. Perhaps that will stop the sanctimonious arsehole attitudes some(not all) present with.

Not exclusively. Self ID has been prioritised over women in Libs, Dem and Greens time and time again.

Yes, exclusively. It's their proposal. They put it on the table. They can get rid of it. They haven't got rid of it. The Conservative Party is wholly to blame for Self ID proposals. And is wholly to blame for not binning it because they could if they wanted to.

It would be the height of foolishness to vote Tory to get rid of Self ID.😆😆😆

one.

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

one.

You’ll be up to 20 in no time 🙂

@AlexaShutUp

My only conclusion about the voters who wouldn't vote for other parties because of their stance on women is that they must be very comfortable middle class voters with very few other things to worry about.

My job brings me into close contact with the horrendous impact of Tory rule, and believe me, lots of real women are really suffering from that impact right now. I doubt that many of those queuing up at food banks right now have much headspace to bother about whether Keir Starmer knows what a woman is tbh.

I am very unhappy with Labour's position on women, but I am really concerned that people are focusing on this to the exclusion of other issues which are equally important.

I agree with each and every word you say there. There are lots of real women suffering due to this government's policies.

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer depressing, I know. I should have picked a higher number haha.
Still I live in hope that Labour do a U Turn before the next election.

It's not so much about voting tory, but more about NEVER voting labour. Labour left this country in a right mess. Half the country on benefits, overspending, left a HUGE deficit, funded pointless wars in the middle east because the US said so. And in the last election I thought okay maybe they'll redeem themselves, let's see what they want to do,

but then rather than have some good policies to actually help improve the economy, do something about the rising cost of living, and peoples salaries not rising in-line etc. they insisted on raising taxes for the middle-class (as if we aren't already squeezed enough, middle class IS NOT RICH), abolishing private schools (ridiculous as if that would fix the state school system). Abolishing right to buy, (actually removing the chance for people living in poverty/working class to get themselves out of poverty, by getting themselves on the housing ladder) Having a second vote on brexit (I didn't vote brexit, but even I can admit a second vote would of been stupid and would of have caused wayyy more problems, rather than just focusing on a post-brexit deal) and also insisted that men who say they're woman are so, so should be allowed on all-female candidate shortlists.

Personally, I despise Borris but ATLEAST He's kept the UK on the road to recovery and the economy growing, helped the property market etc. And also delivered us out of brexit. Despite covid.

In an ideal world I wouldn't vote tory OR labour. Because they'd be a perfect 3rd option. But out of the 2 Tory everytime by default. Because labour just isn't an option.

Never voted Tory. Will vote Labour.

Will still vote Tory.
Labour don't know what constitutes a woman

Do the values of the candidate matter, or is it all about the party? Our MP is not SNP and seems to be very responsive and hard working. I’d hate the Most-likely-to-beat-SNP candidate to be the likes of Priti Patel, Dominic Raab or Matt Hancock. How anyone could ever vote for them (if they weren’t the most-likely-to-beat-the-SNP candidate) is baffling. Who in their right mind could ever think Dominic Raab seems like a trustworthy, hard-working, morally sound sort of guy?

No, there is no chance of my voting Tory. To be honest, I doubt that I'd vote Tory even if they get rid of him, because I can't see that any of his likely successors is a lot better. The only one who's remotely competent is Gove, and I despise his views on education.

I did not vote Tory at the last election because I hate Brexit and Boris Johnson.

However I probably* will vote Tory at the next one because it is the only party which will protect single sex spaces and hasn’t been totally captured by Stonewall.

(*if Johnson goes, which I think he will.)

I remember the debates on Homosexuals, the arguments on here sound very similar, made by men back then.
Hard to believe that until 1999 it meant instance dismissal from the services, even in 1995 you could be jailed.

I recall many Tory voters up in arms when Cameron announced he would allow Gay marriage.

The very real dangers to women come from Men, heterosexual men, be that murder and rape or slashing services that primarily affect women and children.

Tell me what makes labour so much better then ?

@Pinkrose1111

It's not so much about voting tory, but more about NEVER voting labour. Labour left this country in a right mess. Half the country on benefits, overspending, left a HUGE deficit, funded pointless wars in the middle east because the US said so. And in the last election I thought okay maybe they'll redeem themselves, let's see what they want to do,

but then rather than have some good policies to actually help improve the economy, do something about the rising cost of living, and peoples salaries not rising in-line etc. they insisted on raising taxes for the middle-class (as if we aren't already squeezed enough, middle class IS NOT RICH), abolishing private schools (ridiculous as if that would fix the state school system). Abolishing right to buy, (actually removing the chance for people living in poverty/working class to get themselves out of poverty, by getting themselves on the housing ladder) Having a second vote on brexit (I didn't vote brexit, but even I can admit a second vote would of been stupid and would of have caused wayyy more problems, rather than just focusing on a post-brexit deal) and also insisted that men who say they're woman are so, so should be allowed on all-female candidate shortlists.

Personally, I despise Borris but ATLEAST He's kept the UK on the road to recovery and the economy growing, helped the property market etc. And also delivered us out of brexit. Despite covid.

In an ideal world I wouldn't vote tory OR labour. Because they'd be a perfect 3rd option. But out of the 2 Tory everytime by default. Because labour just isn't an option.

Agree with this 100%.

This is an excellent article and sums up for me some of the problems:

www.ft.com/content/dec2e1ed-d827-41de-a827-b9d7fbf06fd0

We need better standards and to appreciate that politics is not a game.

@WorriedMumsDontSleep - similar to you, the Labour Party have been clear they don’t want my vote.

My MP, who I get on well with (& was extremely supportive of me when I spoke with him during the 1st lockdown) does not want my vote. The Labour Party have been clear that they think I am a bigoted dinosaur who hates trans people. I’m no longer a party member (joined in 1998).

I have no one to vote for. I am entirely unrepresented.

I have also voted Tory in a local election (2001 ish) when it was a VERY close margin between BNP & conservatives. The BNP won.