What kind of fucked-up, dysfunctional workplace is our government operating in?

[noblegiraffe]

Downing Street and the Houses of Parliament? Can't get through the day without a suitcase of wine in Downing Street, drugs everywhere in Parliament? Subsidised bars on work premises?

I guess the fact that they tried to make an exemption for the bars in the Houses of Parliament when introducing a curfew for pubs should have been a warning sign that there's far too much reliance on alcohol in our ruling classes.

There was a lot of talk about standards in public life during the Owen Paterson scandal. Surely not being pissed or high on the job is a basic standard?

Aside from the issue that they couldn't even stop having massive piss-ups during lockdown, AIBU to think that something needs to be done to introduce basic rules like 'If you're not safe to drive, you're not allowed to vote in new laws'?

If you wouldn't be happy with a teacher teaching your kids half-cut and would expect rules to prevent this, why should we tolerate our government ruling the country while making their way through the contents of the wine fridge?

People have been posting 'oh yes, it's always been like this'.

Well it shouldn't be in future.

@merrymouse

End of the working week doesn't = after work

You mean people hanging around in the office drinking on a Friday while they are still working, instead of just getting the work done and going for a drink after work?

Yes, that does sound dysfunctional and unproductive. I can’t understand why anyone would think it would be a good idea.

Nope

Odd you think it's one or the other

You're aware Friday is also known as the 'end of the working week'

The whole day

Many City based workplaces have a drinks trolley come round at 16:30 for the final half an hour/hour to enjoy

Several offices I regularly communicate with in Manchester do the same too.

Do you need steady hands to be an MP? Also most don't get slaughtered at work.

No, of course most don't get slaughtered at work. But it does seem that a small number do. I don't think anyone really minds people going out for a drink at the end of the working week. But Johnson has come out with the excuse that what to most people's eyes looks very like a social gathering which was illegal at the time, was just a normal working experience. This excuse was dragged out of him when his first statements were that there weren't any parties, or none that he knew of, or then that people told him there weren't any.

Are you honestly trying to say that an MP doesn’t know how they are going to vote at the start of the evening.

Of course they know, because so often they are whipped into doing so. Hence they needn't listen to the debate.

@Peregrina

Do you need steady hands to be an MP? Also most don't get slaughtered at work.

No, of course most don't get slaughtered at work. But it does seem that a small number do. I don't think anyone really minds people going out for a drink at the end of the working week. But Johnson has come out with the excuse that what to most people's eyes looks very like a social gathering which was illegal at the time, was just a normal working experience. This excuse was dragged out of him when his first statements were that there weren't any parties, or none that he knew of, or then that people told him there weren't any.

Are you honestly trying to say that an MP doesn’t know how they are going to vote at the start of the evening.

Of course they know, because so often they are whipped into doing so. Hence they needn't listen to the debate.

But it is a normal workplace experience for many in the city

This is what the issue is, people are picking on the wrong scabs. It waters down the actual crap they've done by conflating it with the normal shit many people do.

@Sherrystrull

It's not acceptable to drink at all at work!

According to who?

If it's unacceptable why do many workplaces offer and even encourage it

@noblegiraffe

Anything can be a distraction, and if a person wanted to drink then either inhouse or outside services, they would still drink, not saying one way or another the morals

People who work in the 'real world' don't get to decide whether they turn up to work drunk or not, or drink while at work. It would usually be a disciplinary matter.

So you're happy for them to be drunk before a vote. Are you happy for them to be drunk while working in their office? Or is it just voting on new laws drunk that you find reasonable?

Before you start to logically infer my perspectives based on what I haven't said or extrapolate meaning from what I have said, with regards to the facts and perspectives on being drunk before a vote,

I need to study various reports about how ddrink can affect behaviour, memory, ect, then I want to see reports that show if being drunk and to what levels can influence a person's decision making, then I also want to see if any studies have been conducted that show weather access or being allowed access to drink during various hours of the day, leads to irresponsible behaviour, and finally I want to see the rules that are in place with regards to the availability of drink and if a person has been drinking when a vote is to happen. After all that then I'll give you my perspectives.

"The city" isn't the workplace of a publicly funded body.

I don't consider drinking at work to be "normal shit many people do". Most jobs would fire you for drinking at work.

How much alcohol is deemed sufficient to impair your judgement enough that you are not safe to drive?

You’re right. They’re super dangerous. Wonder how many people have been killed in the hallways of Westminster because some pissed person misjudged their speed.

Many City based workplaces have a drinks trolley come round at 16:30 for the final half an hour/hour to enjoy

I’ll have to take your word for it, but it would be great if you could provide a list of these places so we could all avoid dealing with them.

@Hercisback

"The city" isn't the workplace of a publicly funded body.

I don't consider drinking at work to be "normal shit many people do". Most jobs would fire you for drinking at work.

You might not consider it to be true

But it is true many workplaces have this as a perk, I haven't worked in one office where this isn't a thing. I work with hundreds of other workplaces and offices as part of my job and most of them have the same too!

It not being something you're familiar with, doesn't make it uncommon

@merrymouse

Many City based workplaces have a drinks trolley come round at 16:30 for the final half an hour/hour to enjoy

I’ll have to take your word for it, but it would be great if you could provide a list of these places so we could all avoid dealing with them.

Based on the context of many of these comments I don't think you have anything to worry about

You clearly don't work in similar industries or professional services

The government are paid by the tax payer. They set the example for the rest of the country as they set the rules. When paid to be at work they should be sober and working.

Are nurses who don't have direct contact with patients allowed to drink when working?
Are teachers when on ppa and not in charge of children allowed to drink?

No! They are being paid to work.

I’ve worked in places where it’s normal to have drinks after work every Friday, but ‘go slow and don’t focus Fridays - it’s practically the weekend!!! - woohoo!” is a new one on me.

Even when I’ve worked in offices with table football and beanbags.

But it is a normal workplace experience for many in the city

The vast majority of the UK population don't work in the City.

What City workers do is irrelevant to them and to this issue. It's just another dead cat: the point is that these civil servants broke the very rules their workplace had set out and imposed upon the entire UK population. Lots of people were prevented from saying their last goodbyes to relatives and loved ones, because the rules forbade it. People who went for walks outdoors were fined heavily for breaking these rules.

Meanwhile, this lot were smuggling wine in suitcases into their offices and having regular piss ups.
If it wasn't wrong, why the suitcase?
If it wasn't wrong, why lie about it?

@AuldAlliance

But it is a normal workplace experience for many in the city

The vast majority of the UK population don't work in the City.

What City workers do is irrelevant to them and to this issue. It's just another dead cat: the point is that these civil servants broke the very rules their workplace had set out and imposed upon the entire UK population. Lots of people were prevented from saying their last goodbyes to relatives and loved ones, because the rules forbade it. People who went for walks outdoors were fined heavily for breaking these rules.

Meanwhile, this lot were smuggling wine in suitcases into their offices and having regular piss ups.
If it wasn't wrong, why the suitcase?
If it wasn't wrong, why lie about it?

How are drinks at work breaking any rules at the time!?

The parties, garden and otherwise are what we should be angry about

Drinks at work isn't. It was within the rules stated at the time.

Based on the context of many of these comments I don't think you have anything to worry about

You clearly don't work in similar industries or professional services

My concern is as a customer.

@Goldenbear

I worked in Whitehall and I don't believe there are drugs everywhere, it is not that kind of culture, they are too conservative with a small c.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59539589.amp

If it wasn't wrong, why the suitcase?

I haven’t seen the suitcase in question, but I had assumed it was so they could carry more.

@merrymouse

Based on the context of many of these comments I don't think you have anything to worry about

You clearly don't work in similar industries or professional services

My concern is as a customer.

Again, I don't think you have much to worry about

Drinks are not work.
The fact that some people have drinks in their workplace doesn't make them work.

The consumption of alcohol is part of a range of factors indicating that these were not "work events", a concept BJ just invented a few days ago to try and explain why he was at a cheese and wine party when that was against the rules.

The alcohol isn't the biggest issue here, certainly, but it is one of the things that demonstrates that these people weren't working.

Just because some City workers regularly get pissed in their workplace doesn't mean it's unreasonable to feel indignant that civil servants are spending public money on booze, fridges and parties, all the more so during national lockdown.

The fact that these civil servants bought a fridge for their booze and concealed their wine in a suitcase is evidence that they knew they were not following the rules. Or is that how City workers transport their carryouts, too?

Typically a few units

A couple of pints or two small glasses of wine is often within the limit unless you have a super shit metabolism, or your weight m/height are very much outside the norm

They say you shouldn't drink at all if you are going to drive. It's not 'odd that I don't know what's legal' because I don't make those sorts of calculations as I don't drink and drive. I'm not surprised that you're more driven by what you can legally get away with though.

The point is the “workplace event” line is a total red herring - these were illegal parties. The fact they were held in the Prime Minister’s residence/office when he was setting the rules make them even more outrageous. Many people were WFH at the time and then later mocked for following the rules. In fact WFH employees seem much more responsible, productive and sober.

WinnersDinner

How are drinks at work breaking any rules at the time!?
These were the rules at the time:

twitter.com/GHNeale/status/1481256330249834496?s=20

These gatherings weren't essential for work purposes and were therefore against the rules.

Drinks at work isn't. It was within the rules stated at the time.

Please point to the rule that allowed drinking at work.

People were only supposed to be going to into the workplace if absolutely necessary.

If people’s work was so unimportant that it could be done while drinking, it clearly didn’t fall into these guidelines.

I remember many threads about who qualified as a key worker for childcare purposes and whether it covered professionals like accountants and people who work in banking.

However I don’t think anyone thought key worker status included a drinks trolley.

@AuldAlliance

WinnersDinner

How are drinks at work breaking any rules at the time!?
These were the rules at the time:

twitter.com/GHNeale/status/1481256330249834496?s=20

These gatherings weren't essential for work purposes and were therefore against the rules.

And you know that how?

They've stated it was drinking whilst working

The work was deemed as essential, the drinks don't change that at all

This is making the entire argument a bit weak.

@merrymouse

Drinks at work isn't. It was within the rules stated at the time.

Please point to the rule that allowed drinking at work.

People were only supposed to be going to into the workplace if absolutely necessary.

If people’s work was so unimportant that it could be done while drinking, it clearly didn’t fall into these guidelines.

I remember many threads about who qualified as a key worker for childcare purposes and whether it covered professionals like accountants and people who work in banking.

However I don’t think anyone thought key worker status included a drinks trolley.

Drinking doesn't negate the need of the meeting or why they were in at the time

You lot are wild