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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What kind of fucked-up, dysfunctional workplace is our government operating in?

611 replies

noblegiraffe · 15/01/2022 11:03

Downing Street and the Houses of Parliament? Can't get through the day without a suitcase of wine in Downing Street, drugs everywhere in Parliament? Subsidised bars on work premises?

I guess the fact that they tried to make an exemption for the bars in the Houses of Parliament when introducing a curfew for pubs should have been a warning sign that there's far too much reliance on alcohol in our ruling classes.

There was a lot of talk about standards in public life during the Owen Paterson scandal. Surely not being pissed or high on the job is a basic standard?

Aside from the issue that they couldn't even stop having massive piss-ups during lockdown, AIBU to think that something needs to be done to introduce basic rules like 'If you're not safe to drive, you're not allowed to vote in new laws'?

If you wouldn't be happy with a teacher teaching your kids half-cut and would expect rules to prevent this, why should we tolerate our government ruling the country while making their way through the contents of the wine fridge?

People have been posting 'oh yes, it's always been like this'.

Well it shouldn't be in future.

OP posts:
MrsHamlet · 15/01/2022 21:16

You're right. I don't deem it professional, especially when the people concerned are paid for out of the public purse.

Wreath21 · 15/01/2022 21:20

Oh here we go. The real issue - that these bastards terrorized and penalised the public unnecessarily while they did whatever they liked - is going to be swept away in puritan whinyarsery about people having a drink or two after work and how it Shouldn't Be Allowed. Yes, there are plenty of jobs where you need to be operating at full capacity while you are at work but if you decide, when you have reached the end of your working week, that you want to get blitzed on Jagerbombs and dance on the table because you have 48 hours to recover, then that's up to you.

Covidclaire · 15/01/2022 21:20

Isn't it bloody obvious? Alcohol impairs decision-making. They are running the country which involves making some pretty bloody important decisions. You get that, yes? The effects of alcohol are usually well-understood so I didn't realise you needed them spelling out.

As I said IN MY OP, if you're not safe to drive, you shouldn't be voting in new laws.

Can you really not see the difference? When you’re driving you have to make decisions in the moment based on the situation around you. Are you honestly trying to say that an MP doesn’t know how they are going to vote at the start of the evening. That a pint or two might cause them to change their mind.

You’re deluded. There are all sorts of reasons why drinking in Westminster during work hours isn’t a good idea but impairing their judgement to vote isn’t one of them.

MrsHamlet · 15/01/2022 21:23

The real issue - that these bastards terrorized and penalised the public unnecessarily while they did whatever they liked - is going to be swept away in puritan whinyarsery about people having a drink or two after work and how it Shouldn't Be Allowed
The two are inextricably linked. To behave like that whilst banging on about everyone being in it together and the public being shamed if they stepped out of line is despicable. But it's being excused as part of the hard working and playing "culture" - which is unacceptable in itself.

NefretForth · 15/01/2022 21:25

@Covidclaire

They’re not underpaid, as they knew exactly what they were signing up for.

That same comment could go for nurses.

Quite so. People used to say to junior doctors who were working 120 hours a week and falling asleep at the wheel on the way home, 'You chose the hours when you chose the job.'
NefretForth · 15/01/2022 21:30

@Wreath21

Oh here we go. The real issue - that these bastards terrorized and penalised the public unnecessarily while they did whatever they liked - is going to be swept away in puritan whinyarsery about people having a drink or two after work and how it Shouldn't Be Allowed. Yes, there are plenty of jobs where you need to be operating at full capacity while you are at work but if you decide, when you have reached the end of your working week, that you want to get blitzed on Jagerbombs and dance on the table because you have 48 hours to recover, then that's up to you.
Yes, I really agree with this. A few drinks at the end of the working week is not a big deal (and I know none of the people involved but would be prepared to bet that no taxpayers’ money was used to pay for the booze,, civil servants haven’t been able to claim alcohol on expenses in any circumstances for a long time). Making rules that you expect everyone else to follow while ignoring them yourself absolutely is.
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2022 21:32

Are you honestly trying to say that an MP doesn’t know how they are going to vote at the start of the evening.

Are you saying that the debates are a waste of time then? No wonder MPs disappear to the bar rather than participate in them then Hmm

MPs aren't supposed to just turn up to parliament to vote. The are supposed to be working too.

Do you think that subsidised bars in Parliament facilitate or hinder this work?

OP posts:
merrymouse · 15/01/2022 21:44

Yes, I really agree with this. A few drinks at the end of the working week is not a big deal (and I know none of the people involved but would be prepared to bet that no taxpayers’ money was used to pay for the booze,, civil servants haven’t been able to claim alcohol on expenses in any circumstances for a long time). Making rules that you expect everyone else to follow while ignoring them yourself absolutely is.

This thread is not about what people do after work, it is about what they do at work.

If there were no pandemic and no restrictions nobody would care what people do after work.

However, we have been told that the drinking was within the rules because staff were working.

This therefore raises the question of why they were drinking at work.

Hercisback · 15/01/2022 21:45

A few drinks after work isn't the same as bringing bottles of wine into the office or having a bar on site.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2022 21:51

Extraordinary that there are people willing to argue that it doesn’t matter if an MP’s judgement is impaired at work.

OP posts:
Hawkins001 · 15/01/2022 21:54

@noblegiraffe

Are you honestly trying to say that an MP doesn’t know how they are going to vote at the start of the evening.

Are you saying that the debates are a waste of time then? No wonder MPs disappear to the bar rather than participate in them then Hmm

MPs aren't supposed to just turn up to parliament to vote. The are supposed to be working too.

Do you think that subsidised bars in Parliament facilitate or hinder this work?

Anything can be a distraction, and if a person wanted to drink then either inhouse or outside services, they would still drink, not saying one way or another the morals,

As for alcohol affecting a vote, surely they or their department would of considered all points on the particular issue, and as long as the levels of drink has not effected their perspectives and as long as there following the codes or rules set out then it's up to management to alter the rules, if they think others cannot vote correctly if their judgement may of been impaired by drink or other factors.

WinnersDinner · 15/01/2022 21:54

@merrymouse

Yes, I really agree with this. A few drinks at the end of the working week is not a big deal (and I know none of the people involved but would be prepared to bet that no taxpayers’ money was used to pay for the booze,, civil servants haven’t been able to claim alcohol on expenses in any circumstances for a long time). Making rules that you expect everyone else to follow while ignoring them yourself absolutely is.

This thread is not about what people do after work, it is about what they do at work.

If there were no pandemic and no restrictions nobody would care what people do after work.

However, we have been told that the drinking was within the rules because staff were working.

This therefore raises the question of why they were drinking at work.

Where did that poster state after work?

End of the working week doesn't = after work

WinnersDinner · 15/01/2022 21:56

@noblegiraffe

Extraordinary that there are people willing to argue that it doesn’t matter if an MP’s judgement is impaired at work.
You'd need 6+ units of alcohol for it to even start imparting anything

You seem to have a warped view on the daily role requirements for being an MP, or even those working in the building, don't forget a small portion of those using these facilities are actually MPs other civil servants work there too.

Hawkins001 · 15/01/2022 21:57

@noblegiraffe

Extraordinary that there are people willing to argue that it doesn’t matter if an MP’s judgement is impaired at work.
On the flip side of your point , this type of perspectives could be applied to the public when it comes to choosing the pm ect, could it not ?
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2022 22:02

Anything can be a distraction, and if a person wanted to drink then either inhouse or outside services, they would still drink, not saying one way or another the morals

People who work in the 'real world' don't get to decide whether they turn up to work drunk or not, or drink while at work. It would usually be a disciplinary matter.

So you're happy for them to be drunk before a vote. Are you happy for them to be drunk while working in their office? Or is it just voting on new laws drunk that you find reasonable?

OP posts:
WinnersDinner · 15/01/2022 22:04

@noblegiraffe

Anything can be a distraction, and if a person wanted to drink then either inhouse or outside services, they would still drink, not saying one way or another the morals

People who work in the 'real world' don't get to decide whether they turn up to work drunk or not, or drink while at work. It would usually be a disciplinary matter.

So you're happy for them to be drunk before a vote. Are you happy for them to be drunk while working in their office? Or is it just voting on new laws drunk that you find reasonable?

Ah so now you also don't seem to understand the difference between having a drink and being drunk

Do you think many people working in the commons walk around steaming?

Far more likely it's a beer or glass of wine here or there. Like in other workplaces where this is common.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2022 22:04

On the flip side of your point , this type of perspectives could be applied to the public when it comes to choosing the pm ect, could it not?

The public don't choose the PM, the ruling party does. I'd rather the party weren't drunk when they did that either tbh.

The public aren't employed by the taxpayers, they aren't paid to vote responsibly.

OP posts:
Covidclaire · 15/01/2022 22:07

Are you saying that the debates are a waste of time then?

On the day of a vote, yes.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2022 22:07

Far more likely it's a beer or glass of wine here or there. Like in other workplaces where this is common.

How much alcohol is deemed sufficient to impair your judgement enough that you are not safe to drive?

You still haven't come up with another workplace funded by the taxpayer where this is common.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2022 22:08

@Covidclaire

Are you saying that the debates are a waste of time then?

On the day of a vote, yes.

Great, let's scrap them, scrap the bars and save tonnes of public cash.
OP posts:
merrymouse · 15/01/2022 22:12

End of the working week doesn't = after work

You mean people hanging around in the office drinking on a Friday while they are still working, instead of just getting the work done and going for a drink after work?

Yes, that does sound dysfunctional and unproductive. I can’t understand why anyone would think it would be a good idea.

Covidclaire · 15/01/2022 22:12

Oh here we go with another MN classic. One drink makes you drunk.

I’m sure there are people drunk at Westminster. But to assume everyone who has had a drink is drunk is ridiculous.

You’re just making yourself look stupid now.

Covidclaire · 15/01/2022 22:13

@merrymouse

End of the working week doesn't = after work

You mean people hanging around in the office drinking on a Friday while they are still working, instead of just getting the work done and going for a drink after work?

Yes, that does sound dysfunctional and unproductive. I can’t understand why anyone would think it would be a good idea.

Agreed. Just leave early for the pub on a Friday instead.
WinnersDinner · 15/01/2022 22:13

@noblegiraffe

Far more likely it's a beer or glass of wine here or there. Like in other workplaces where this is common.

How much alcohol is deemed sufficient to impair your judgement enough that you are not safe to drive?

You still haven't come up with another workplace funded by the taxpayer where this is common.

Typically a few units

A couple of pints or two small glasses of wine is often within the limit unless you have a super shit metabolism, or your weight m/height are very much outside the norm

Odd you don't know this tbh

Plus you need far more wits about you to drive than to work in a bloody office environment

Sherrystrull · 15/01/2022 22:14

It's not acceptable to drink at all at work!