What kind of fucked-up, dysfunctional workplace is our government operating in?

[noblegiraffe]

Downing Street and the Houses of Parliament? Can't get through the day without a suitcase of wine in Downing Street, drugs everywhere in Parliament? Subsidised bars on work premises?

I guess the fact that they tried to make an exemption for the bars in the Houses of Parliament when introducing a curfew for pubs should have been a warning sign that there's far too much reliance on alcohol in our ruling classes.

There was a lot of talk about standards in public life during the Owen Paterson scandal. Surely not being pissed or high on the job is a basic standard?

Aside from the issue that they couldn't even stop having massive piss-ups during lockdown, AIBU to think that something needs to be done to introduce basic rules like 'If you're not safe to drive, you're not allowed to vote in new laws'?

If you wouldn't be happy with a teacher teaching your kids half-cut and would expect rules to prevent this, why should we tolerate our government ruling the country while making their way through the contents of the wine fridge?

People have been posting 'oh yes, it's always been like this'.

Well it shouldn't be in future.

Loads of privileged idiots in journalism as well!

[quote Ted27]@noblegiraffe
what happens in Downing Street is not indicative of what happens in the wider civil service

lets not tarnish the whole of the workforce[/quote]
I'm sure that's true BUT there were a hell of a lot of departmental parties happening under lockdown too if reports can be believed.

I used to work in this area and I don't honestly think having bars in Westminster is necessarily terrible, although they should certainly only open in the evenings if that's not already the case. People going for drinks post-work is hardly a crime.

Drinking during work is different obviously. Lots of workplaces in different sectors have booze given out on a Friday afternoon in the office!!! You don't get that in Parliament (I guess individual MPs could buy booze but I've not seen it done). I'm sure teachers often hit the pub after work even though obviously they don't (usually) drink in school.

It's a different matter from the wholesale ignoring of the rules and allowing themselves little fun times when no-one else was allowed to and - according to them! - having fun was a risk to public health. That's just utter twattery.

Equally, that was an impenetrable sector to enter when you are a South London girl with no private school background, whereas I managed to get a very good job in Whitehall. The people writing this stuff are the people you also have to watch imo. Whipping up their hysteria every single day to keep selling papers and keeping the viewers engaged.

@Goldenbear

It's sensationalist crap peddled out by the journos- I wonder what their work culture is like, having carried out work experience at a newspaper i don't need to imagine.

We can see the bottles in the pictures. The drinking has been justified because it was at work.

I really don’t think the entire civil service behaved like this because I know what family members who are civil servants were doing at the time.

However this was clearly what was going on on the offices where the rules were being made.

[quote Ted27]@noblegiraffe
what happens in Downing Street is not indicative of what happens in the wider civil service

lets not tarnish the whole of the workforce[/quote]
I picked on the DfE because we know that they are also having a Christmas party investigated.

@BowerOfBramble

The vast majority of civil servants were and are still working from home, and are not London based anyway. There is a party in my Dept under investigation which involved a handful of people.
I'm as furious as everyone else, it shouldn't have happened, Boris needs to go, but these parties involved a very small number of people and they need to take the consequences, without tarnishing the rest of the civil service.
I will confess that at the end of my working week I had a walk up to my allotment with a flask of tea and a chunky kit kat and had a party with the robins

Oh I know - it's a massive workforce most of whom live a very quiet life and it's unfair people will think it's everyone.

I will confess that at the end of my working week I had a walk up to my allotment with a flask of tea and a chunky kit kat and had a party with the robins

Can I say this sounds absolutely delightful, I'd take that over blooming post-work drinks any time.

these parties involved a very small number of people

It's not just the parties I'm talking about in my OP, but the entire workplace culture of daytime and office drinking which isn't normal in most other workplaces.

What pisses me off the most about all of this is the age old class / money distinction, in that high flyers with the right contacts can be pretty damd dysfunctional while in important positions and people will cover for them and support them, meanwhile Joe Public, regardless of whether their lived have bee n shitty and driven them to it, get blamed, shamed, resources made difficult to access, if you can get them at all and without the safety net that class privilege can afford.

And in terms of the pandemic, it's really taking the biscuit. Even if it was low key and discreet, and is being milked by rival politicians and the press, it's a huge error of judgement and needs to be addressed.

I'm no killjoy and like a party myself, but FFS, leading by example is the bare minimum for our elected leaders surely, especially in times if turmoil.

Sorry, am just quite disgusted by the whole debacle.

On a side note, anyone got eyes on potentially controversial legislation sneaking it's way through the system while we're righteously frothing about it all? Might be worth a poke around.....

I'm not saying that the wine didn't happen but the OP has suggested drinking at work is not a thing and I was poiting out that it is, was and still is. What is the working culture in journalism like?

@noblegiraffe

I work in the dept for education and I object to suggestions that we were not sober whilst working

Most of us are just ordinary working people, stuck at home, home schooling the kids, just like everyone else, but yes we are were all drunk

I work in the dept for education and I object to suggestions that we were not sober whilst working

Good. It is unacceptable and should be unacceptable to everyone working in government.

Sadly, it seems that it is not, and that needs to change. How can it be changed?

@Goldenbear

I'm not saying that the wine didn't happen but the OP has suggested drinking at work is not a thing and I was poiting out that it is, was and still is. What is the working culture in journalism like?

Journalists are not public servants are they?

Where else in the public sector is it prevalent?

Pre-Covid, I used to keep a few bottles of wine in the office and every so often we'd have a small get-together at the end of the working day. Couple of glasses and everyone would head off. I don't see what's wrong with that - we don't drink while we're working. (That shouldn't be read as condoning what was going on in Downing Street, the last time we did it was January 2019!)

Beer Fridays is a real thing in some workplaces, at 4.30pm everyone gathers for a drink and socialise, good for team morale etc. I'm in no way defending the civil servants and staffers that broke lockdown, but pre pandemic this wasn't a weird thing to do. Exh has (well had, wfh now) this at his work.

Back when I worked in London it was far worse, we drank most lunchtimes and after work too, it was normal - md got wine in for any excuse too (labour winning in 1997 resulted in champagne all around )

@noblegiraffe

I think we all know the answer to that. Boris has to go. Downing Street, and Westminster is a bubble, please don't perpetuate a myth that that there is a culture of daytime and office drinking throughout the civil service.
Alcohol is banned in my office and would be disciplinary matter. I'm sure that is the case in most offices.

What goes on the Secretary of State's office is another matter

Alcohol is banned in my office and would be disciplinary matter

Why do the same rules not apply across government?

I also dislike this hiding behind Boris. There were subsidised bars in Westminster before he arrived and other posters have reported a drinking culture that also predates him.

Ironically the only person who's really suggested that drinking has been going on while working is Boris Johnson, who's famously said that the "cheese and wine" pic shows "people at work".

I've never worked anywhere where booze is given out or consumed routinely during the working week (as opposed to after work). What makes you think this is the norm @noblegiraffe?

NB for those worried about MPs voting during Friday night drinks, there aren't any votes on Friday nights. (This is not me excusing a poor culture but that is just the case)

@noblegiraffe

Lets be clear here, yes there are bars in Westminster, ie the Houses of Parliament, inhabited by MPs, not civil servants.
I am not hiding behind Boris because I have nothing to hide.
I really can't see that this would have happened if Theresa May had been PM.
People get away with what they think they can get away with. Boris is Prime Minister, he sets the tone. Its time he stopped hiding behind civil servants.

No its not standard to get drunk or do drugs in other departments. Again, we know its one rule for them and one for the rest of us, that includes civil servants outside of that tiny bubble. I agree it shouldn't be tolerated and they should be setting an example, but that culture isn't overly unfamiliar- I can only really comment on London but taking drugs and boozy lunches/meetings/after work drinks to 'network' weren't uncommon, I imagine covid aside it still is. Doesn't mean it's acceptable, but its naive to think otherwise.

@Goldenbear

It's sensationalist crap peddled out by the journos- I wonder what their work culture is like, having carried out work experience at a newspaper i don't need to imagine.

Yes there was a huge amount of boozing used to go on along Fleet Street. Journalism was one of the worst professions for drinking for a long time!

What makes you think this is the norm?

Well, this tweet by Jack Monroe certainly suggests it is, and I’ve also heard stories about drunk MPs being rounded up to vote.

“Seven years ago I was part of a campaign to get the rise in foodbank use in Britain debated in the Houses of Parliament. The debate was granted, I watched from the public gallery. Halfway through the harrowing testimonies many of the MPs filed out and disappeared

I asked my companion, an experienced journalist, where they went.

‘They’ve gone to the bar, someone will go and get them when it’s time to come back and vote.’

Dozens of campaigners, charities, and people in real hardship had given up their evening to try to effect change.

Paid our own travel, brought our own lunchboxes for the long night ahead.

And the people who were in a position to hear our stories and help, mugged us all off to go and get pissed instead. It’s always stayed with me, the contempt the ruling classes have for those they serve.“

twitter.com/bootstrapcook/status/1481274824030834688?s=21

Lets be clear here, yes there are bars in Westminster, ie the Houses of Parliament, inhabited by MPs, not civil servants.

Pretty clear in my OP I’m talking about MPs when I say ‘not safe to drive, not safe to vote”, yes?

I've never worked anywhere where booze is given out or consumed routinely during the working week (as opposed to after work).

I’ve known it happen in actual offices in a few places, usually either a Friday afternoon or after a team meeting late afternoon.

But there are places all over London where there is very much a lunchtime/afternoon drinking culture in the pubs and bars. Leadenhall and the insurance industry being a prime example.

Tbh the civil service (yes, the Whitehall bit of it) is the least boozy workplace I've ever been in. I worked quite widely in the private and voluntary sector beforehand. I know there are pockets of it - generally the bits closest to ministers - but broadly it's recognised as a very avoidable PR risk. I'm watching with interest to see who gets named and shamed as having attended various parties, but my strong suspicion is that it'll be overwhelmingly MPs, conservative party staff, spads and similarly-appointed 'officials', and a very small number of actual permanent civil servants. ie. the inverse ratio of actual employment, even within that central government bubble. All should be held accountable and all have brought disrepute.

I don't see the issue with the HoP bar, although I don't think it should be subsidised.

I know a primary school locally who took two INSET days before Christmas for an all-staff piss-up. I think that showed shockingly poor judgment from the headteacher and governors, but I don't think it's representative.

I don't see the issue with the HoP bar

You think voting in parliament while under the influence is ok?