What kind of fucked-up, dysfunctional workplace is our government operating in?

[noblegiraffe]

Downing Street and the Houses of Parliament? Can't get through the day without a suitcase of wine in Downing Street, drugs everywhere in Parliament? Subsidised bars on work premises?

I guess the fact that they tried to make an exemption for the bars in the Houses of Parliament when introducing a curfew for pubs should have been a warning sign that there's far too much reliance on alcohol in our ruling classes.

There was a lot of talk about standards in public life during the Owen Paterson scandal. Surely not being pissed or high on the job is a basic standard?

Aside from the issue that they couldn't even stop having massive piss-ups during lockdown, AIBU to think that something needs to be done to introduce basic rules like 'If you're not safe to drive, you're not allowed to vote in new laws'?

If you wouldn't be happy with a teacher teaching your kids half-cut and would expect rules to prevent this, why should we tolerate our government ruling the country while making their way through the contents of the wine fridge?

People have been posting 'oh yes, it's always been like this'.

Well it shouldn't be in future.

@Covidclaire

If it wasn't wrong, why the suitcase?

I haven’t seen the suitcase in question, but I had assumed it was so they could carry more.

A suitcase is an unusual choice for carrying lots of glass bottles in.

Few wine shops provide suitcases for customers who buy lots of bottles to trundle them home (or to work). Or maybe they do in the City?

@noblegiraffe

Typically a few units

A couple of pints or two small glasses of wine is often within the limit unless you have a super shit metabolism, or your weight m/height are very much outside the norm

They say you shouldn't drink at all if you are going to drive. It's not 'odd that I don't know what's legal' because I don't make those sorts of calculations as I don't drink and drive. I'm not surprised that you're more driven by what you can legally get away with though.

Who says that?

You asked what the official rules are for drinking and driving

Most likely thinking it would be less than what most would drink whilst at work when that's available

Your argument is weak, as is your understanding of this concept

Was the DJing part of their work, too?
Was the person who broke Wilf's swing actually a health and safety expert carrying out checks?

Wild.

A leaving do for someone who has already left is not an essential work meeting. End of. They are lying through their teeth and alkies to boot.

I have worked in a lot offices in the city and beyond. My experience is that the work sanctioned drinking slowed in early 90s and had pretty much died by 2000. A lot of senior people became spooked by the idea that they could be seen as sanctioning the bad stuff associated with alcohol consumption. I am amazed that it is apparently still the 1970s apparently in number 10 and some city offices. I certainly don’t want it at number 10.

The parties, garden and otherwise are what we should be angry about
Yes, but

Drinks at work isn't. It was within the rules stated at the time.

In my time as a Civil Servant and I retired some years ago now the rules changed, and it became a disciplinary offence to drink at work, or come to work less than fully sober. What exactly were the rules in Downing Street? I would be surprised if they were any different.

My experience is that the work sanctioned drinking slowed in early 90s and had pretty much died by 2000.

Mine too.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

I have worked in a lot offices in the city and beyond. My experience is that the work sanctioned drinking slowed in early 90s and had pretty much died by 2000. A lot of senior people became spooked by the idea that they could be seen as sanctioning the bad stuff associated with alcohol consumption. I am amazed that it is apparently still the 1970s apparently in number 10 and some city offices. I certainly don’t want it at number 10.

Then your experience doesn't seem current

Over the past decade I've worked in and at over 30 different London based offices, most of which are FTSE50 companies, I can count on one hand how many didn't have some form of alcohol at work. Some had fully staffed bars, alcohol trolleys, wine Wednesdays, beer fridges or just one mini bottle of wine plonked on your desk on a Friday afternoon, all had alcohol based working lunches if taking clients out for example too.

In addition to this I work closely and communicate with over 100 workplaces in the U.K in my current role (snr manager at a FTSE 10 company) most London based but a lot in Manchester these days too. Same story, the majority do wind down Fridays when in the office with alcohol, a few had refits post pandemic closure which for many meant adding in a bar area.

It's actually becoming even more common with younger businesses and start ups too.

@Peregrina

My experience is that the work sanctioned drinking slowed in early 90s and had pretty much died by 2000.

Mine too.

You've already stated you retired a while ago

Your experience therefore is severely out of date

*Typically a few units

A couple of pints or two small glasses of wine is often within the limit unless you have a super shit metabolism, or your weight m/height are very much outside the norm

Odd you don't know this tbh*

Can only assume you are somehow posting from 1982.

The recommendation for safe driving has been ‘don’t drink and drive’ for decades. This is because it’s so difficult to say what a safe limit would be for any individual at any particular time.

The legal limit is not a target.

In addition to this I work closely and communicate with over 100 workplaces in the U.K in my current role (snr manager at a FTSE 10 company) most London based but a lot in Manchester these days too

Again would be great to have the names of all these companies. I’m sure you won’t mind sharing them as you seem to think this practice is very accepted.

WinnersDinner

Over the past decade I've worked in and at over 30 different London based offices, most of which are FTSE50 companies, I can count on one hand how many didn't have some form of alcohol at work. Some had fully staffed bars, alcohol trolleys, wine Wednesdays, beer fridges or just one mini bottle of wine plonked on your desk on a Friday afternoon, all had alcohol based working lunches if taking clients out for example too.

In addition to this I work closely and communicate with over 100 workplaces in the U.K in my current role (snr manager at a FTSE 10 company) most London based but a lot in Manchester these days too. Same story, the majority do wind down Fridays when in the office with alcohol, a few had refits post pandemic closure which for many meant adding in a bar area.

And did all this carry on during lockdown, in May 2020, for instance? When the workforce had been told to WFH? If not, how is it relevant?

This is one Mumsnet thread that I think the Daily Mail should follow up on.

@AuldAlliance

WinnersDinner

Over the past decade I've worked in and at over 30 different London based offices, most of which are FTSE50 companies, I can count on one hand how many didn't have some form of alcohol at work. Some had fully staffed bars, alcohol trolleys, wine Wednesdays, beer fridges or just one mini bottle of wine plonked on your desk on a Friday afternoon, all had alcohol based working lunches if taking clients out for example too.

In addition to this I work closely and communicate with over 100 workplaces in the U.K in my current role (snr manager at a FTSE 10 company) most London based but a lot in Manchester these days too. Same story, the majority do wind down Fridays when in the office with alcohol, a few had refits post pandemic closure which for many meant adding in a bar area.

And did all this carry on during lockdown, in May 2020, for instance? When the workforce had been told to WFH? If not, how is it relevant?

Of course, some came back to the office when they could have still had people WFH

Plus I'm coming at this from the 'it's not that weird to have alcohol at work' pov, you'd understand that had you bothered to RTTFT

People are claiming it's so odd for people to drink at work, and it's really not

You asked what the official rules are for drinking and driving

No I didn't. As you know, it is impossible to say what level is 'safe' as it varies from person to person, so it is best not to drink at all.

As for 'MPs are only having one drink' there's this story

"In July 2010, a newly elected member of the U.K. Parliament (MP), the aptly named Mark Reckless, issued a public apology after he missed a late-night vote because he was too drunk to take part.

“I remember someone asking me to vote and not thinking it was appropriate, given how I was at the time,” Reckless said.

He had overindulged at the Terrace Pavilion, one of nearly 30 bars within the Palace of Westminster open to MPs, staffers, passholders, and journalists. Reckless denied claims that he fell asleep at the Terrace, however, or that he took a taxi back to his constituency 37 miles away."

Your experience therefore is severely out of date

I am pretty sure that if I called in at the old office I would find that the rules haven't reverted back to what they were in the 1970s and 80s.

@noblegiraffe

You asked what the official rules are for drinking and driving

No I didn't. As you know, it is impossible to say what level is 'safe' as it varies from person to person, so it is best not to drink at all.

As for 'MPs are only having one drink' there's this story

"In July 2010, a newly elected member of the U.K. Parliament (MP), the aptly named Mark Reckless, issued a public apology after he missed a late-night vote because he was too drunk to take part.

“I remember someone asking me to vote and not thinking it was appropriate, given how I was at the time,” Reckless said.

He had overindulged at the Terrace Pavilion, one of nearly 30 bars within the Palace of Westminster open to MPs, staffers, passholders, and journalists. Reckless denied claims that he fell asleep at the Terrace, however, or that he took a taxi back to his constituency 37 miles away."

You asked How much alcohol is deemed sufficient to impair your judgement enough that you are not safe to drive?

The official guidance isn't 0 units, which is what you are coming at this from

Which is odd

You are still considered safe to drive if under the legal limit

Thus most can have at least one drink

@Peregrina

Your experience therefore is severely out of date

I am pretty sure that if I called in at the old office I would find that the rules haven't reverted back to what they were in the 1970s and 80s.

Probably not

As you've already stated your workplace didn't have it when you left

It's odd you think your one experience at work, having been retired now for some time is even remotely relevant to this

Once again: people who couldn't work from home (whether that's nurses, cleaners or supermarket checkout staff) would have been told that if they so much as stopped to chat with a carton of orange juice apeice at the end of the working day, they would be fined/fired/publicly shamed for BREAKING RULES AND MURDERING GRANNIES. Christmas 2020 some people were actually pointing out the stupidity of this concept that you could work all day in the same room as a mob of other people but if you went to the pub with them the virus would somehow know, and infect you then.

They ordered the public to suffer when they had no intention of doing so themselves.

@merrymouse

In addition to this I work closely and communicate with over 100 workplaces in the U.K in my current role (snr manager at a FTSE 10 company) most London based but a lot in Manchester these days too

Again would be great to have the names of all these companies. I’m sure you won’t mind sharing them as you seem to think this practice is very accepted.

Social chain Amazon Knight frank JLL Google Microsoft Unilever GSK The LSE Deliveroo Student beans PLT ASOS American Express Blue crest capital McCann Adam and Eve Mother! AMV WPP Ogilvy

Cba to list more tbh, again, I highly doubt based on what you've posted here you'd have any professional dealings with any of these businesses

You are still considered safe to drive if under the legal limit

You are considered legal to drive. As you have said, actually how alcohol impacts you is affected by various things and so the safe thing to do is not drink at all before driving. As recommended by the government adverts and the slogan 'Don't drink and drive'.

It's odd you think your one experience at work, having been retired now for some time is even remotely relevant to this

No more odd than anyone else's experience who think that because some City firms bring round drinks trolleys that every where else does.

@Peregrina

It's odd you think your one experience at work, having been retired now for some time is even remotely relevant to this

No more odd than anyone else's experience who think that because some City firms bring round drinks trolleys that every where else does.

Who said everywhere does?

@noblegiraffe

You are still considered safe to drive if under the legal limit

You are considered legal to drive. As you have said, actually how alcohol impacts you is affected by various things and so the safe thing to do is not drink at all before driving. As recommended by the government adverts and the slogan 'Don't drink and drive'.

You're just being ridiculous

Your understanding on this issue is clearly poor

You are still considered safe to drive if under the legal limit

No, any amount of alcohol can impair your judgement and reflexes, and it isn’t possible to accurately say how many units would put an individual over the limit, therefore ‘don’t drink and drive’ has been the message for a very long time.

You are confusing ‘safe to drive’ with ‘could be prosecuted for being over the legal limit’.