Another private school thread

[nearly4o]

I guess iI am looking for endorsement of our schooling approach as I am from very worki mg class background and private school is a lot of money that could be spent paying off mortgage .

We have two DC. DC1 is nearly 7 and going into yr 3 In September. He is in an infant school now and needs to move anyway for yr 3. He had very bad glue ear which delayed him with speaking and impacted his overall progression in reception. That has been fixed now and he has had speech therapy but he is ~1 ye behind academically more or less. Sometimes we aee the other kid's work through the app and it is light-years ahead of our son. He is getting swallowed up in a class of 30. Has said multiple times when he puts his hand up to ask Qs, no one comes
To see him.

Daughter age 5 in reception. Already reading and writing. No concerns.

There is a prep school close by with class size 15. It is no selective and they have space.

The junior school achieves below average results in reading and maths.

The prep is £10k per year plus uniforms etc

I earn £70k plus shares worth between £15k-£20k per year. Husband is leaving his job in May (he has to) and is yet to secure employment but he will have a £10k a year pension.

Mortgage £1600
Plus usual bills probably £3k per month in bills -

My take home is £4K.

I feel a bit queasy about the risk given husband's job situation. But don't want to fail my child.

He does have tuition currently as well once a week.

Don't want to regret not sending him in 4 years when he is even further behind going into secondary school.

Then obvs the question of do we send our daughter as well?

Thoughts ?

@Winter2020
We have just moved into this house 9 months ago. It is a 5 bed detached in the south east. But I am not moving. I was depressed in our last house for many reasons and this house brings me a lot of joy. Plus stamp duty and this village (despite the mediocre junior school) is very popular as it is 10 mins to fast train to London. And on door step of countryside.

The 3k includes the mortgage.
£1600
ct 220
Car tax/ insurance/ tyres/ house insurance other car related things and the ground rent for a flat we rent out £350
Life insurance £40
Sky internet £40
Phones: £80
Gym: 180 (whole family - love it. Took it out when I got promoted )
Gas:electricity - £150 but I think going up
Netflix etc £20

So maybe not quite 3k anymore - we paid off some loans earlier this year so no car debt or any debt other than mortgage.

We do own a flat in a desirable area that we rent out. Don't make anything day to day but it is a retirement plan. There is a lot of equity in it. So worse case we could remortgage but I know husband wouldn't be keen to do that- literally would only do it if we were on fire

:59Innocenta

@Handholding587
only 7% of children go to private schools, and most of them are not working class, so - no, this really isn't true

I taught for many years in a private junior school, and when I said that many pupils were from working class backgrounds, I am speaking from experience.
I suppose it depends on your definition of 'working class.'
In my last class, two parents were taxi drivers, some were nurses, one an electrician and one had a garage. There were children from wealthy backgrounds but it was fairly evenly split.

@Mummyoflittledragon Any more state school stereotypes you want to throw in there?

Is this a good time for me to mention all the stories of sexual assault reported at private schools?

or is it actually a case that every school is different and OP should evaluate the schools available to her and make the best decision for her child?

@Handholding587

:59Innocenta

@Handholding587
only 7% of children go to private schools, and most of them are not working class, so - no, this really isn't true

I taught for many years in a private junior school, and when I said that many pupils were from working class backgrounds, I am speaking from experience.
I suppose it depends on your definition of 'working class.'
In my last class, two parents were taxi drivers, some were nurses, one an electrician and one had a garage. There were children from wealthy backgrounds but it was fairly evenly split.

@Handholding587 Only 7% of children go to private school.

93% go to state schools. That is the overwhelming majority. By definition, nearly all working class kids are in state schools.

I’ve had 2 go through state primary and 1 through private primary. I think you’d be better off finding an after school tutor a couple of times a week and a bit more home support (in a fun way - lots of educational computer games out there etc). Private’s really only worth it for the extra curricular stuff which doesn’t seem to be your focus.

I understand you love your new home and your lifestyle sounds lovely (genuinely - not being sarcastic) but it does mean that 3k of your 4k income is used up. You will need the remaining 1k for food/ fuel/clothes/ holidays/birthday/xmas/ extra curricular activities.

I'm assuming the flat rental only covers it's own mortgage and expenses (perhaps sometimes you have to dig into your own money for larger expenses and tax).

So it seems clear to me OP that while you can afford to support your family and lifestyle (which you are quite understandably not willing to change) the only way you can afford private school is if your husbands new job covers the cost. I think you will have to wait and see what work he gets before you commit.

I understand your husband has a 10k pension bit you are used to him earning 50k so I would wait and see what work he gets unless you used to have significant left over money or have savings.

Ideal scenario is that husband earns £50k abs also has his pension which will cover fees for DS.

He has interviews lined up.

I do have the money from my shares as well. I get multiple vests each each which are min 15k

Do what is most effective for your DS now. Your DD is fine and doesn't need uprooting; you don't have to do the same for each of them right now. Fairness is about more than what you spend on them.
It sounds like DS would benefit from the move and you can certainly afford it on your income surely.

Your background is irrelevant and most private schools are full of people trying to do their best, not a separate breed.

@Handholding587 Only 7% of children go to private school.

93% go to state schools. That is the overwhelming majority. By definition, nearly all working class kids are in state schools

I'm sure they are. But that is not to say that private schools don't have many children from working class backgrounds.
If the OP is considering a private school then the fact that she is working class has very little relevance, there will be other children from similar backgrounds, and it shouldn't be one of the issues that affect her choice.

If you are confident you can afford it I would go for it for your son and think about your daughter after. She might be happy and thriving in her school and not want to move.

Hi OP. Based on what you have outlined here, I would move him. But first please check -

What exactly is the SEN provision in the prep? Please be aware that in some preps it is shocking. If he needs additional 1:1 who will do this and when exactly? Have the school seen his current profile? What did they have to say about this? How precisely will they commit to helping him?

Honestly, be very specific with these questions. Get the school to commit to a programme before you move him. Don’t blithely assume prep school / smaller classes = better. It can be and often is, but it’s by no means a given.

Is there a full-time ed. support / SEN team in the school? Will you have to pay extra for additional sessions (this is highly likely). Don’t get fobbed off with vague platitudes from the school here. You will be a paying customer - they need to be specific with their plan.

I totally agree that a tutor can’t do much and may actually be counterproductive. This is because they often explain things in a slightly different way which can overload a child who is already confused as it is. Also, how much can really be achieved in a discrete hour (or even several)?

Look now at the leaver’s destinations for this prep. This is key. Is the school preparing children for competitive exams for local independent secondaries? Do you want / need this additional pressure if your plan is for him to go to a non-selective state secondary? 11 plus can be stressful! Will he be the only child not continuing in the private school route (trust me, once on the wagon it can be hard to pull them off).

Overall though, if you are satisfied that this school can offer the support he needs, I would move him. The next few years will be critical to his educational confidence and how he perceives himself. Good luck!

@ana1s
Good advice thank you .

We have a tour booked with the Head Teacher so will ask all those Qs. They also do a taster day for my son to see how he likes it. Once he sees the football pitch and learns that Tbey have a proper school team, he will probably be very happy!

@itwasntaparty

I wouldn't send him. If he needs additional support he's likely better off in state with good provision. A couple of friends have found out the hard way when they have had to pay on top of fees for additional support.

I'd get a tutor.

I agree with @itwasntaparty about additional support. My experience has been that private schools might be quick to flag up a problem with not keeping up they aren’t particularly up to speed with recognising problems with learning which may be an indicator of other problems (such as ADHD) because simply not enough children pass through for them to recognise indicators even if they have the resources in theory to cater for it (a very small private school may not). My direct experience of this is limited to 3 prep schools and 3 senior private schools but I do know parents who have found the same issue in other private schools. The state sector seems more accountable in this regard and better at the assessment of what is holding a child back or causing them problems academically or socially. Some private schools are very well meaning but don’t have people who are up to speed on these things. That’s not to say there aren’t excellent practitioners in private schools, its just that private doesn’t equal better.

The other issue with a very small school is that although the small class sizes are great, in terms of gaining confidence it can be socially tricky as there are not a lot of friends to choose from so if the year contains ten children and half of them are girls then that can be tricky if a child struggles with friendships. It can also be hard to be leaving at 11 to go back into state school if your friends are staying put to 13, and adjusting to a presumably much larger school with no hand-holding isn’t easy if school is already a struggle.

That said the change could help re-set him and it sounds like change would be good and I can see why the small learning groups and closer monitoring is attractive. I guess there may be some flexibility about which year group he goes into as well. A friend of mine put her struggling August born DS into a private school, joining the year below and it was a huge help. And of course they are able to provide more individual attention which might be enough.

Financially, it’s worth keeping in mind that the extras can tot up as others have said, though a lot of private schools are mindful of this with a good secondhand uniform shop and no flashy trips etc, but a big extra cost would be extra learning support which is likely to go on top of fees, especially in a small school. Another friend of mine tutors lots of children at state school for a certain hourly fee, which is much lower than the private school parents are paying her to provide the same support for their DC as a learning support teacher on a part-time basis at a small local prep school. I would also keep in mind the fee rises each year which are usually inflation busting!

From my experience I’d say be very sure to check that should your DS need very specific help at some point, that a small prep school has the ability to do more than keep its class sizes small; what is its provision? What sort of issues have they and do they work with, how many other children have formal learning support and what will it cost?

Sorry, but of a waffly response!

I think you need to take a step back and consider other options.

As PPs have said, smaller class size may not be better if SEN support is worse at the private school. Also, have you considered that there is a possibility his peers at the private school might be slightly ahead of his current peers, making the gap even wider? The school may not be selective but some schools in the private sector move through the curriculum faster than the state sector. A different one to one tutor who can offer more hours might be able to help him progress faster than a change in school.

Have you considered that he might have other SpLDs and that this might not be just because of the issues caused by the glue ear? A child who is struggling to write but is very bright in other ways could be indicative of SpLDs.

It is very hard to assess at such a young age but, even so, perhaps the first step should be a full assessment with an educational psychologist to see if there are other issues. They will be able to advise on the best support and, possibly, the best local schools that can provide that support.

And while I’ve been typing away at my incredibly slow rate @ana1s has said it all much more eloquently. Good advice.

Ours are at private for primary school and we've not found it costs much more than the advertised fees at all. They do 3 trips a year which are paid for as part of the fees (total fees are schools fees+food+trips paid monthly over 10 months). Uniform is only slightly more expensive than a state school. Sports clubs are optional and 2 of them are free, the others are £3.20 a session but my kids aren't sporty.

We have similar income and expenditure to you and we afford it.

Yes you can send one private and not the other. Your school choice should be based on where each will flourish.

Given the uncertainty of income, I would only send him to the prep if you are absolutely sure they have the skills, a plan and the ability to help him catch up. Just because it’s private is no guarantee.

If you ultimately choose to send both, remember that it means you yourself will likely be tied to your job and earning at your currently level for nearing a decade. More if you end up wanting private senior school.
You will need to increase your income periodically (assume 5%fee increase a year) and there will be no dropping to fewer hours. Can you accept that?

It sounds like his current school is not meeting his needs but you can’t assume that SEN support will be better in the prep. In some it is virtually non-existent. Do you know anyone with children at the prep who could give you an honest assessment?

Although you have said the prep isn't selective, even the non selective preps will do some screening. So if he is a year behind it is possible they might not give your child a place. You usually have to pay for additional SEN support at independent, around £45 per week for 1 hour!

We're on similar incomes and manage about that on childcare but I think it'll be tight. Could you use savings to top up for the years you'd have two there?

If he’s the sort of child that needs extra help, I think it could be incredibly difficult for him to go from a prep school with tiny classes to a comp at secondary.

Unless you’re going to do this for both your children, until they can leave school, I wouldn’t do it. If anything, pay for extra tuition now, and save so that you can afford private secondary comfortably. It will be much more beneficial. There is loads you can do to support a child at primary school yourself, but it becomes much harder at secondary

If the OP is considering a private school then the fact that she is working class has very little relevance, there will be other children from similar backgrounds, and it shouldn't be one of the issues that affect her choice.

@Handholding587 I agree that it should have relatively little impact on her choice, but that point can be made without massaging the facts. Very few children have access to private education.

Based on your outgoings and income it doesn't sound like you can afford it, so it's not an option unless your husband secures regular employment. I wouldn't look into private school if you aren't sure you can afford it long term: moving school repeatedly would cause unnecessary upheaval.

My experience has been that private schools might be quick to flag up a problem with not keeping up they aren’t particularly up to speed with recognising problems with learning which may be an indicator of other problems (such as ADHD) because simply not enough children pass through for them to recognise indicators even if they have the resources in theory to cater for it (a very small private school may not)

That's not been my experience. In fact, it was within the 1st 2weeks of prep school that they recognized ds had all the classic symptoms of ADHD and he eventually went on to be diagnosed with a whole host of other issues. He had been at the local state school up to from reception to yr 2 and nothing had been flagged up. Thank goodness we made the switch.

The fact that you are working class has no bearing on your situation. Many children from working class backgrounds attend private schools.

I think it should be a consideration actually. I am from a working class background and went to a private school. It was a very difficult experience and not one I would choose for my own children. Maybe things have changed radically since I was at school but there weren't "many" kids there from working class backgrounds at all. I can only recall one other child during my whole time at school. I felt like an outsider. Adults often assume children are oblivious to such things but they aren't.