If there was an election tomorrow, who would you vote for?

[SecretKeeper1]

Obviously the Tories are a complete shitshow, but Labour aren’t a lot better and I couldn’t hand on heart vote for either in good conscience right now.

So… IF a snap election was called, like in December 2019, who would you vote for? Would it make a difference to you if Boris was replaced as Tory leader? Would you even bother voting or maybe go for a totally different national or local party?

Just curious!

Lots of people care about it alongside lots of other issues. But self ID in terms of votes only affects a tiny minority.
And anyone voting Conservative thinking they will protect girls and women is ignoring what is currently happening. There has been a big rise in prostitution as more women are forced into poverty, Social Services and care services have been cut leaving girls even more vulnerable, cuts to grants helping women experiencing domestic abuse makes it harder for women to leave abusive men. So many things have got worse for girls and women under Boris Johnson. Why do all these women not matter?

Can't stand this absolutely hairy bullshit that we're right wing. It's such a convenient narrative. Most of us are the leftiest of the left.

@SNUG2022

Can't stand this absolutely hairy bullshit that we're right wing. It's such a convenient narrative. Most of us are the leftiest of the left.

It’s standard. Anyone who doesn’t agree with a certain brand of leftist politics is right wing/transphobic/alt right/racist/homophobic/funded by the far right and so on.

It’s best to just stop caring what you’re called as it’s purely a manipulation tactic designed to shut you up and/or change your mind. Those who employ it don’t seem to realise that most people don’t give a shit now, they’ve been pushed too far.

But if you are left, why ignore all the other damage the Conservatives are inflicting on women and girls?
You know they are planning to ban protests?

No one is ignoring anything. Some just believe that self id and associated ideology is the most damaging towards women and girls and want to tackle that as a priority. You do understand that other people will have made their own analysis and decided their own pathway without reference to yours don’t you? And that that they’re allowed to do so and you don’t have to understand why or agree with it and that they might in fact even know more about the issues they’re worried about than you do.

Labour. I'm ancient enough to remember at least two occasions when people said we shouldn't vote Labour into power for very similar reasons to those currently being expressed about Starmer. When they were voted in, they proved perfectly competent and certainly better than their Conservative predecessors.

Don't patronise me. I do understand the issues.
Bloody hell middle-class women can be so bloody patronising sometimes.

And if you lose the right to protest, you will be totally stuck.

@AllThePogs

Don't patronise me. I do understand the issues. Bloody hell middle-class women can be so bloody patronising sometimes.

And if you lose the right to protest, you will be totally stuck.

See there you go “middle class women”. I couldn’t be less middle class if my life depended on it but to think and speak this way I have to be, right? In your world… don’t worry I am not going to launch into a litany of by WC credentials mostly because it’s none of your business.

I’m just tired of all the name calling and hand wringing at these “TERFS” Not Doing The Right Thing And How Can They Not See?! I feel like it’s necessary to point out that your way and your views are not the only ones that matter. There’s a way of debating now which positions the opposition as evil/stupid/phobic/bigoted - you’re doing it right here. I’m pushing back against it. If you feel patronised then too bad really.

Definitely Labour. I actually like KS. Don't agree on self ID but they have best change or getting rid of Conservatives and that has to be priority.

@LondonWolf I AM what would be called "TERF".
Maybe you are not middle class then, but you are patronising. All the assumptions that I know nothing about this when I simply disagree with you.
Oh well, I assume you won't be personally affected by the rise in prostitution.

@LondonWolf and it was your condescion that made me think you were middle class. There is a certain very polite condescension that some middle-class women excel in.

Why did you assume I was middle class? You know absolutely nothing about me or my background or why I might prioritise Self ID and associated ideologies when I am making my voting decision. Yet you’re telling us we are “ignoring” women who are trapped in abusive relationships that “don’t care” about prostituted women, that they “don’t matter” to us. You imply that because I am not personally affected by prostitution (how could you know this?) then I am dismissing the issues those women face. I’m tired of this kind of manipulative guilting that passes for debate these days, in fact I would go so far as to say I am disgusted by it. Personally I don’t understand why you aren’t prioritising the 4400% rise in mainly autistic girls who are now “transitioning” the lack of safe guarding or even basic care around these girls and their health. The women who are being locked in cells with male sex offenders wearing wigs and lipsticks, the women being attacked and losing their jobs and ability to provide for themselves and their children because they won’t use the correct pronoun, the vulnerable, confused, elderly women who cannot advocate for themselves but who will be forced to accept men caring for them because they’ve put on a wig and a frock, the CEO of a rape centre in Scotland who tells women they must reframe their trauma to accommodate the feelings of men who want to talk about their rape with them.

Protecting women starts in all manner of places, don’t express amazement and shock because others attempts to do so don’t start where you’ve decided is there right place for them to.

I have to cook dinner now. I’ll check in on this thread later.

[quote AllThePogs]@LondonWolf and it was your condescion that made me think you were middle class. There is a certain very polite condescension that some middle-class women excel in.[/quote]
I take this as a compliment.

Thank you 😊

None of the above

"I’m heartened at just how many women are citing Self ID as a main consideration in their voting preferences. Women are all affected by Self ID and 51% of the population is not a “minuscule” number of individuals."

Sorry - maybe I didn't express myself clearly.

I understand that many people are incensed by this issue.

But nobody seems able to be able to point to where this is causing actual material harm to women's life chances or safety. It's all hypothetical. A bit like the EU sovereignty issue. In the mean time anyone who knows and cares about the well-being of trans individuals can see how personal, how cruel and uncaring the rhetoric around this issue is.

@Sabire9

"I’m heartened at just how many women are citing Self ID as a main consideration in their voting preferences. Women are all affected by Self ID and 51% of the population is not a “minuscule” number of individuals."

Sorry - maybe I didn't express myself clearly.

I understand that many people are incensed by this issue.

But nobody seems able to be able to point to where this is causing actual material harm to women's life chances or safety. It's all hypothetical. A bit like the EU sovereignty issue. In the mean time anyone who knows and cares about the well-being of trans individuals can see how personal, how cruel and uncaring the rhetoric around this issue is.

The rapists who have been placed in women's prisons sure cause those women harm

But nobody seems able to be able to point to where this is causing actual material harm to women's life chances or safety. It's all hypothetical

Maybe you should pop over to the feminist board and see how these 'hypotheticals' are played out in real life. In schools, changing rooms, toilets, prison, sport, refuges....

@LondonWolf

Why did you assume I was middle class? You know absolutely nothing about me or my background or why I might prioritise Self ID and associated ideologies when I am making my voting decision. Yet you’re telling us we are “ignoring” women who are trapped in abusive relationships that “don’t care” about prostituted women, that they “don’t matter” to us. You imply that because I am not personally affected by prostitution (how could you know this?) then I am dismissing the issues those women face. I’m tired of this kind of manipulative guilting that passes for debate these days, in fact I would go so far as to say I am disgusted by it. Personally I don’t understand why you aren’t prioritising the 4400% rise in mainly autistic girls who are now “transitioning” the lack of safe guarding or even basic care around these girls and their health. The women who are being locked in cells with male sex offenders wearing wigs and lipsticks, the women being attacked and losing their jobs and ability to provide for themselves and their children because they won’t use the correct pronoun, the vulnerable, confused, elderly women who cannot advocate for themselves but who will be forced to accept men caring for them because they’ve put on a wig and a frock, the CEO of a rape centre in Scotland who tells women they must reframe their trauma to accommodate the feelings of men who want to talk about their rape with them.

Protecting women starts in all manner of places, don’t express amazement and shock because others attempts to do so don’t start where you’ve decided is there right place for them to.

I have to cook dinner now. I’ll check in on this thread later.

Well said!!

katie dolatowski and Karen White's victims aren't hypothetical.
Keira Bells experience isn't hypothetical.

I wouldn't vote for anyone nowadays. They're all rubbish.

Conservative.

Green

Personally I don’t understand why you aren’t prioritising the 4400% rise in mainly autistic girls who are now “transitioning” the lack of safe guarding or even basic care around these girls and their health. The women who are being locked in cells with male sex offenders wearing wigs and lipsticks, the women being attacked and losing their jobs and ability to provide for themselves and their children because they won’t use the correct pronoun, the vulnerable, confused, elderly women who cannot advocate for themselves but who will be forced to accept men caring for them because they’ve put on a wig and a frock, the CEO of a rape centre in Scotland who tells women they must reframe their trauma to accommodate the feelings of men who want to talk about their rape with them

Can I point out that all those things have happened during Tory rule and self ID was a Tory policy.

Can I point out that all those things have happened during Tory rule and self ID was a Tory policy.

So if labour (or any of the others) were in power, what would they be doing to roll this policy back and stop things getting even worse?

Labour.

I don't support self ID but greens and Lib Dems are no better. I want the Tories out more than anything, so labour it is.