Carrie Johnson - time to resign

[PersonaNonGarter]

I realise she isn’t an elected politician, but Carrie Johnson gives me red mist. It’s a combination of her smug OW-ness and the flat refurbishment and general influence on the staff hires at Number 10. And the fact that she is so unaccountable.

YABU - it’s misfired anger, Boris is ultimately responsible for everything including his wife

YANBU - she has agency and influence and hiring an £££ interior designer was hardly Boris’s idea was it

Carrie Johnson was at the first Downing Street party revealed to have taken place in lockdown. The excuse given for that is that it was a "work event".
So she's part of his work when it suits and an innocent little uninvolved homemaker when it doesn't?

This is a horrible thread. As well as stupid.

I don't have any great opinion of Carrie Johnson. But she's Boris' wife. That's it. She is not an elected political figure with a position to resign from. Save your ire for those who deserve it.

And absolutely there's misogynism seeping through post after post. Another poster said it - did critics of Theresa May blame Philip, or of Margaret Thatcher, Denis?

I think the PM should take responsibility - he gets ideas from the many people surrounding him - they are not all accountable to the public - he is. We need to stop giving him an out, he's not a little kid. The buck stops with Boris Johnson.

I feel sorry for Marina, his second ex-wife who was recovering from cancer when Boris and Carrie had that ridiculous boho woodland wedding like a pair of teenagers in love.

What a grubby, nasty start to a relationship - competing with Jennifer Arcuri for the affections of a serial liar.

He'll cheat on Carrie, maybe already has. Pretty sure he didn't sign up for marriage and babies when he finally left his wife, I imagine she was just meant to be his hot girlfriend and he didn't plan on spending his weekends at Peppa Pig World.

She is not an elected political figure with a position to resign from

That’s the entire point of the thread. Unelected, in Downing Street through marriage, yet apparently exerting political influence.

Resign from what?

It's up to the PM whose advice he listens to. If you're disgusted that he choses to listen to her, that's on him.

If you think he's incapable of running the country without a panel of 'special advisers', so is not competent to be PM, that's your view of him.

I saw someone refer to her as "Carrie Antoinette". I thought that was very apt. She is awful. I even prefer Harry & Megan over Boris & Carrie

My issue with her is that she is unelected but appears to have significant power if sources are to be believed. I would take that view whether the spouse/partner was a woman or a man.

She has apparently been instrumental in the removal or appointment of government ministers.

I've no idea if it's true of course and there's so much misogyny around in the press that I have to be careful reports aren't just a hatchet job.

I save my greatest anger for the responsibility-avoiding selfish, arrogant and dangerous man that she's married to.

That’s the entire point of the thread. Unelected, in Downing Street through marriage, yet apparently exerting political influence

That's on Boris. It's entirely down to the PM how much notice is taken of their spouse.

You must have been apoplectic over Dominic Cummings OP. Likewise an unelected special adviser - and blatantly paid from the public purse.

There are teams and teams of them though. Do you wish to do away with all special advisers?

Or are you supportive of Tory MPs ousting Boris as PM?

Or both?

A PM needs advisors - of course they do - they need opinions from a diverse group of people to make robust decisions, I'd imagine that always includes a spouse - although many won't be as open about it but the PM makes the decisions - it's on the Pm's head - not the advisors.
Seriously how weak does he present himself when he blames his advisors - it's pathetic.

@AlexaShutUp

I don’t have a high opinion of her at all. For one thing, she has terrible judgement, as evidenced by her choice of husband. I also suspect that the stories about her exerting an excessive influence are true.

However, the real problem is Boris. He is the elected politician and he is responsible for his actions as prime minister. Nobody else. Once he goes, which will hopefully be soon, then the Carrie problem will resolve itself.

Agree on all points.

They are very well suited and deserve each other. Another couple spared as they say.

Let’s not forget the cloud of abusing expenses under which she left her Tory party role. She has since been hired by a party donor to do his comms and hilariously her employer (a charity) is also under investigation over massive spending on interior design (by his wife) out of charity funds. It’s a small world.
As to the smug OW comments - let’s also remember how she grew up. She’s the product of an extra marital affair; her parents never lived together. How their relationship was presented to her as a child no doubt has a substantial bearing on her own moral compass (though Boris bears the blame for cheating on his wives).

@dayswithaY

I feel sorry for Marina, his second ex-wife who was recovering from cancer when Boris and Carrie had that ridiculous boho woodland wedding like a pair of teenagers in love.

What a grubby, nasty start to a relationship - competing with Jennifer Arcuri for the affections of a serial liar.

He'll cheat on Carrie, maybe already has. Pretty sure he didn't sign up for marriage and babies when he finally left his wife, I imagine she was just meant to be his hot girlfriend and he didn't plan on spending his weekends at Peppa Pig World.

This.

He never meant to marry her but he would probably have been "advised" to as we can't have a single, shagaround PM.

But with regards to insiduous influence, the worse in my opinion was Cherie Blair. Horrible, horrible woman.

You must have been apoplectic over Dominic Cummings OP. Likewise an unelected special adviser - and blatantly paid from the public purse

You might like to go back and look at the threads about Cummings - highly vocal and critical.

I wasn't if MN in the days when Mandelson was a SPAD, but remember the criticisms of him - the Noughties saw the massed arrival of SPADs into core roles and I dont think it was right. But that's what happened, and I don't see the tide turning back.

The role of advisor changed then from reasearch/analyst type to politically active though unelected. And I think we're a bit stuck with it, as the level of disquiet, though widespread, has never been Lou's enough to stimulate change. So I'd like to see more people being 'apoplectic'

Treating Carrie Johnson as a manipulating conniving figure who controls Boris Johnson like a puppet is misogynistic

Treating her as a fluffy ornament who doesn't know what is happening is pretty misogynistic as well.

Thatcher, May, Brown, Major, Cameron, Blair all had spouses who were not "political" beyond support for their spouse and a clear alignment with values. They all had their own lives/careers separate from politics.

I don't doubt their PM partners talked to them about ideas and issues but they were not an active and visible part of the machine.

Carrie Johnson is a political actor as well with her own political ambitions. She was a full time party worker (before dodgy expenses issues resulted in her being moved on). She has quite the track record when it comes to money issues.

It isn't only the vengeful Cummings and the DM who have ranted about her influence over number 10 - its much wider than that and much wider than I can recall with previous premiers.

In the ‘Cheese and Wine’ garden photograph, Carrie is sitting with Boris, Dominic Cummings and Martin Reynolds. We are explicitly told by Downing St that this was ‘work’.

Why is it ok to have views on the three individual men (and I do) but not hold views on Carrie? Or discuss her influence? Clearly, she has a lot.

This isn’t a thread asking who has ultimate responsibility.

Haven't seen a discussion like this since "Cherie Blair is running the country". Hmm.

Misogyny at its finest.

Johnson, Hancock, Sunak, Gove, Raab, Cummings et al. created this mess and thumbed their nose at the plebs' huge sacrifices and distress because of their own arrogance, ignorance, hubris and greed. Not because a woman led them astray.

Fuck off with this bullshit blaming women for the sins of men (mostly). It's as old as the Bible and utterly moronic.

If she attended she broke the law.

If she broke the law she should be fined and her employer will need to take a view on how and if that impacts her employment status. Personally I don't think it would mean she should get 'sacked' even though I am livid about the behaviour and law breaking.

Whether her employer still want to be associated with her, and the impact on that association... well that's for her to discuss with them.

@PersonaNonGarter

Kirsty Wark on Newsnight: ‘We all know there are hardly any grown-ups around the Prime Minister…’

Ouch. That’s a low-key well-aimed dig at a 20-something year age gap. And I don’t have Kirsty Wark down as a misogynist.

I would take that as the cabinet around him

Thatcher, May, Brown, Major, Cameron, Blair all had spouses who were not "political" beyond support for their spouse and a clear alignment with values.

We have absolutely no idea how influential they were though.

Treating Carrie Johnson as a manipulating conniving figure who controls Boris Johnson like a puppet is misogynistic

Treating her as a fluffy ornament who doesn't know what is happening is pretty misogynistic as well.

These are not the only two options

The truth is obviously somewhere inbetween. But the important fact is that BJ is the elected leader of the Cons and the country, and so it is his decisions that should be criticised. However he came to make them, after listening to whoever he chose to listen to.

@gallumph

Misogyny at its finest.

Johnson, Hancock, Sunak, Gove, Raab, Cummings et al. created this mess and thumbed their nose at the plebs' huge sacrifices and distress because of their own arrogance, ignorance, hubris and greed. Not because a woman led them astray.

Fuck off with this bullshit blaming women for the sins of men (mostly). It's as old as the Bible and utterly moronic.

Is there any chance that you RTFT?

No one is blaming women for the sins of men (seriously MN, nuance!). We are discussing person of influence at the heart of Downing St who attended ‘work events’ and May have broken the law.

No one thinks she is ultimately responsible or has implies as much. Everyone knows who the PM is.