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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Regarding how child maintenance is spent?

149 replies

souperdouper · 09/01/2022 18:32

This isn't me. Honestly. We had dinner last night with a friend who has a bit of a dilemma so I thought I'd bring it here.

Friend is well off but via work not inheritance. He still works in a salaried position. Recently he divorced from his wife. Honestly it was a model divorce. They'd grown apart, wanted different things but are very friendly for the sake of the children. He bought a flat close to his ex wife with rooms for the 3 children, she got the house, plus a lump sum she invested plus gets £6000 a month spousal support /child support. Friend also pays all school fees as well.

Recently he noted that the children weren't getting things. The oldest said that his mum hadn't sent him on the school trip all his friends were going on because it was too expensive. Horse riding stopped. No holiday. That sort of stuff.

So... the dilemma. She has a fully paid off house, investments and 6 grand a month. Friend was wondering where money was going...

It appears her brother who has 2 slightly younger children was unhappy with their state school. He has a good job but school fees are expensive and he couldn't afford to pay for 2 children (years 7&8.) It appears my friends wife has agreed to fund his children's private education throughout secondary school which apparently doesn't leave much left over for her children's expensive extras. Apparently her investment money isn't accessible atm.

Now the AIBU- friend is thinking of just taking on all additional expenses for his children. So trips, riding, other expensive requests. However, while he's well off he's already left each month with a lot less than his ex-wife because he's paying another mortgage for his flat, and this is even more cost to him- because she's funding private education for two children who aren't his. Things are further complicated by the fact he sees the children as his nephews and is fond of them (although their parents have been a bit unpleasant to him post divorce.) DH said he was mad and should take legal advice. I'm on the fence a bit- his wife's lovely and I can see wanting to help family but it seems cheeky. However it is her money (well the spousal support bit is, but isn't some of it supposed to be child support?) and no child ever died due to the lack of a skiing holiday.

Anyway DH and I just don't think it's right but AWBU?

OP posts:

LittleMousewithcloggson · 09/01/2022 22:44

You can cancel a private child maintenance agreement - even if made in court - by going through the child support agency and going back to court. If he is in Uk that is.
The court will automatically change the maintenance amount to the figure the CSA gives - they can’t do anything else.
He could then pay for all the extras directly himself

chaosrabbitland · 09/01/2022 23:05

@Sowhatifiam

Yes she is but apparently the slightly immoral job is at least one of the reasons the marriage broke down

So she should forgo child maintenance? Or spousal for that matter? R the right to a share in the house, investments, pensions? Without knowing what the job is, it’s not really easy to judge.

is it just me with a now burning curiosity to know what this job is ? that earns a huge sum .caused in part the break up of his marriage .but isnt anything to do with oil or thankfully animal cruelty and a lot of people would have no problem with it .

Dacquoise · 09/01/2022 23:27

Spousal maintenance is based on needs. Supporting another household's school fees doesn't come under that remit. If this was to be be formalised legally it's unlikely there would be excess to fund this. There may also be a requirement for the exW to return to some form of paid employment to contribute to her expenses.
The DH needs to take action. He can always pay for school trips etc himself if his exDW chooses not to but unlimited funds given this way are causing this situation.

Original poster

souperdouper · 09/01/2022 23:34

@Sowhatifiam

Yes she is but apparently the slightly immoral job is at least one of the reasons the marriage broke down

So she should forgo child maintenance? Or spousal for that matter? R the right to a share in the house, investments, pensions? Without knowing what the job is, it’s not really easy to judge.

As I said, not clubbing baby seals. Imagine a scale between HR for Amazon (a bit shit) and Prince Andrew's lawyer (really shit). His job falls somewhere in the middle according to a lot of people.

Obv there's other people who think what he does is perfectly fine.

OP posts:

Sowhatifiam · 09/01/2022 23:35

You can cancel a private child maintenance agreement - even if made in court - by going through the child support agency and going back to court. If he is in Uk that is.The court will automatically change the maintenance amount to the figure the CSA gives - they can’t do anything else

How many times?! If he earns over 2k a week - which seems likely - child maintenance will not be within the jurisdiction of the CMS. CSA has not existed for many years now.

Cameleongirl · 09/01/2022 23:37

The more information you give, OP, the less reasonable her behavior sounds. I agree with you that in her shoes, with all the bills paid and more, I’d be retraining for a new career, but she seems content to live off her ex indefinitely!

Dacquoise · 09/01/2022 23:53

The problem with spousal maintenance is that it is uncertain, job losses, illness, accidents happen so it's okay short term but certainly not secure long term. Throw in new relationships/children on either side and the motivation shifts for both the payer and payee.

It's probably better for both parties to be looking for a clean break order to avoid the uncertainty. I had a joint lives spousal maintenance order ratified in court. It lasted five years before my exDH took me back to court to try to get rid of it. It ended in a clean break settlement.

I went back to work immediately on separation to regain some independence and self esteem. The DW in this situation isn't doing herself any favours relying on her exH.

ReadySteadyTwins · 10/01/2022 07:32

Wait.

He's got a slightly immoral income and she used to be a "performer" and is too old to do it now.

He runs a strip club doesn't he. Was she one of the strippers? Eyes met across a crowded (velvet) room

HaggisBurger · 10/01/2022 09:38

@ReadySteadyTwins

Wait.

He's got a slightly immoral income and she used to be a "performer" and is too old to do it now.

He runs a strip club doesn't he. Was she one of the strippers? Eyes met across a crowded (velvet) room

You’ve gone full Rico and Lola there @ReadySteadyTwins 😉

NewMessageFrom · 10/01/2022 17:02

Is he planning to keep paying when the children have left home?

LittleBearPad · 10/01/2022 17:18

@NewMessageFrom

Is he planning to keep paying when the children have left home?

A good question as if Ex-W is ‘not able to find a job’ now it will be a damn sight harder in 10 years time.

twominutesmore · 11/01/2022 08:33

@NewMessageFrom

Is he planning to keep paying when the children have left home?

Spousal maintenance can be for life, twenty years, ten years, whatever is legally agreed.

She also has a big house to downsize from and an investment.

She may be considering looking for work, retraining, starting a business, who knows. With plenty of money comes plenty of options, lucky woman.

NewMessageFrom · 11/01/2022 08:53

Spousal maintenance can be for life, twenty years, ten years, whatever is legally agreed.
Yes it can be

Realistically he pays way over what he should legally pay
But this suggests no actual legal agreement has been made in this case, just one between the 2

Pinkyxx · 11/01/2022 09:10

I feel it's lovely she's helping her brother. Perhaps she's trying to teach her children generosity of spirit? That they are very priviledged and it is good to help others?

Second those who indicate you have half the story and he's paying what he's paying because it's a good deal for him. I'd not be surprised if it is very much in his interest to not go to court hence why he made a private agreement. With the level of earnings he has and ''less than white'' profession I suspect he's rather motivated to not open himself up to forensic accounting.. CMS rules don't apply at that level of earnings, it's very different indeed.

Soubriquet · 11/01/2022 09:33

It’s one thing helping your brother when your own children have everything they want and need. It’s another to sacrifice your own children’s priorities to cater to your brother.

She’s doing the second.

Hemingwayscatz · 11/01/2022 10:13

Helping your brother with his mortgage one month or buying him a food shop because he’s struggling is fine but using money your ex specifically gives you for your own children on privately educating your nephews just isn’t ok, particularly not when her own DC are now missing out on things at school. Your friend needs legal advice and needs to stop being a wuss and rock the boat with her, she’s taking the piss.

twominutesmore · 11/01/2022 12:45

" It’s another to sacrifice your own children’s priorities to cater to your brother."

It's a skiing trip and horse riding lessons. They're not being sent up chimneys. And without knowing why, which none of us do, not even op, I don't think people should be validating op's feelings of injustice really.

Hospedia · 11/01/2022 15:17

It doesn't matter whether you, I, the ex, or the OP thinks she should spend her money on specific things. Maintenance is not ring-fenced and, once it goes into the household pot, it is up to the ex-wife how it is spent and the ex-husband no longer has any say in it. Even if he went via the courts or via CMS, he has no say in how she spends the money once its been paid to her.

BoredZelda · 11/01/2022 15:52

However I think the moral question is an interesting one.

Not really when you are using such an extreme example.

Because the other end of the scale is a previously financially controlling spouse becoming a financially controlling ex who can decide he has the right to tell his ex what she is allowed to spend money on. I think we can all agree there is no moral dilemma over whether that’s appropriate.

CatsArePeople · 12/01/2022 22:12

Asuming the friend is being truthful - he is paying for his own kids to have these things. But ex decides to spend it on somebody else's kids, who are irrelevant to him. That's a shitty thing to do. How old are his kids? There will be a big resentment building up.

fargo123 · 13/01/2022 07:27

@CMZ2018

Tell the bone idle fucker to get a job. Reduce payments to the absolute minimum. Then ask the kids what they want to do re other activities and pay direct. Take them on holiday himself etc

I agree.

If I was the ex husband, I'd be absolutely LIVID in his position. I'd most definitely be taking whatever steps I could to reduce maintenance to the bare minimum, and would then pay for MY children's activities/needs directly to the supplier. The nephew's education is not his concern or responsibility.

And if the ex wife has all this spare time from not working, she can damn well walk her own dogs. That'd save some more money.

Flatandhappy · 13/01/2022 07:42

They need to do that horrid scary grown up thing, sit down and have a conversation. He needs to ask her directly why the kids’ trips etc. have stopped. If she is honest they might be able to work through it, is she definitely paying for the other kids’ school or is this an assumption, or hearsay? If they can’t work it out then he needs to go legal, pay only what he is obliged to directly to her, take over paying for the extras himself. Unfortunately the end result is likely to be an amicably separated couple turning into anything but.

Dithercats · 13/01/2022 08:05

If it's a private arrangement he should pay the CSA minimum, and then reinstate his childrens activities at his expense, and pay for all school trips etc.
Ex can fire the staff and take over her own cooking and gardening.....or get herself s day job!

Sandinmyknickers · 13/01/2022 08:34

Legal standing aside, I think she sounds a bit of a dimwit to be risking souring what sounds like a very amicable divorce and relationship with a generous ex husband.
At the very least she should talk to him about it before doing so, explain her reasoning and if he has an issue with it, be prepared to have some flex for the sake of maintaining a good relationship

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