Regarding how child maintenance is spent?

[souperdouper]

This isn't me. Honestly. We had dinner last night with a friend who has a bit of a dilemma so I thought I'd bring it here.

Friend is well off but via work not inheritance. He still works in a salaried position. Recently he divorced from his wife. Honestly it was a model divorce. They'd grown apart, wanted different things but are very friendly for the sake of the children. He bought a flat close to his ex wife with rooms for the 3 children, she got the house, plus a lump sum she invested plus gets £6000 a month spousal support /child support. Friend also pays all school fees as well.

Recently he noted that the children weren't getting things. The oldest said that his mum hadn't sent him on the school trip all his friends were going on because it was too expensive. Horse riding stopped. No holiday. That sort of stuff.

So... the dilemma. She has a fully paid off house, investments and 6 grand a month. Friend was wondering where money was going...

It appears her brother who has 2 slightly younger children was unhappy with their state school. He has a good job but school fees are expensive and he couldn't afford to pay for 2 children (years 7&8.) It appears my friends wife has agreed to fund his children's private education throughout secondary school which apparently doesn't leave much left over for her children's expensive extras. Apparently her investment money isn't accessible atm.

Now the AIBU- friend is thinking of just taking on all additional expenses for his children. So trips, riding, other expensive requests. However, while he's well off he's already left each month with a lot less than his ex-wife because he's paying another mortgage for his flat, and this is even more cost to him- because she's funding private education for two children who aren't his. Things are further complicated by the fact he sees the children as his nephews and is fond of them (although their parents have been a bit unpleasant to him post divorce.) DH said he was mad and should take legal advice. I'm on the fence a bit- his wife's lovely and I can see wanting to help family but it seems cheeky. However it is her money (well the spousal support bit is, but isn't some of it supposed to be child support?) and no child ever died due to the lack of a skiing holiday.

Anyway DH and I just don't think it's right but AWBU?

And sorry my first post was just assuming that £6k was all child maintenance.

I reserve any opinion on this one and hope the facts as I understand them help? I suspect it's far more complex and I also wonder why he is talking amongst mutual friends before talking with her or just quietly seeking a legal view.

"what he should do is calculate what he is legally liable to pay."

He is legally liable for whatever the court order says irrespective of what his standard cm liability is.

"Spousal is calculated on NEEDS"

No it isn't.

Needs of all parties are addressed first, that's true.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

It's not her money though is it.

It 100% is.

If you want to be pedantic and short sighted, feel free.

It's not hers. It's what she's currently getting from someone else. After saying that's what she "needs" for living expenses.

Turns out, she's able to live on loads less because she's palming 2/3rds of it off to her brother.

If it is a court order, it's superceded by CMS if that's what the father wants to pay instead after 12mths.

So, no, it's not her money. She's got none. Too up her own arse to work, and needs a personal trainer. It's what she's been enabled to take the piss and wangle for a maximum of 12 months, and then it can be stopped. Not very "hers" is it. But it's what she's managed to ponce for a few months. And she's got no control over him reducing this high voluntary amount to her actual entitlement. So yes, by all means, call it "hers".

Your friend sounds like an absolute mug. I hope he's starting to see exactly what's in front of him and puts a stop to this piss taking pretty fast.

Even the most expensive private school here doesn’t cost £6000 a month for two children! Fuck sake.

She’s mad. I wouldn’t be cutting back on my children’s luxuries, that they’ve had their entire lives, to fund my brothers kids. Absolutely fucking not,

I’d also be frustrated by this. I would fund the activities directly and reduce the maintenance accordingly.

She is stealing from her own kid. Disgusting.

But if he is paying school fees he could in part deduct that, though usually that's a big negotiation point

It’s possible to get a court order to cover school fees. That would be in addition to any child maintenance owing. So no, he couldn’t deduct it without causing issues. Although that of course depends on what orders current exist.

If you want to be pedantic and short sighted, feel free.

It’s not pedantic and short sighted, it’s accurate. That is her money to spend as she pleases.

It's not hers. It's what she's currently getting from someone else. After saying that's what she "needs" for living expenses.

Do you feel the same about child benefit, universal credit, job seekers, state pension?

@Bringonsummer19

I’d also be frustrated by this. I would fund the activities directly and reduce the maintenance accordingly.

Yep. No way he is legally obligated to pay £6k a month as well as signing the property over, if she can't be trusted to spend it on their children then he should pay directly for stuff for them and reduce the money that's sent monthly.

There is no court order. They did mediation and he looked at what he paid to keep the house running and all associated costs and just agreed to pay her that amount. He really didn't want her and the children to have a reduced standard of living because their marriage broke down.
He feels guilt for the marriage breakdown. His job isn't always the most morally white and she struggled a lot with some of the people / corporations he worked for (being as vague as possible here) and eventually felt unable to stay with him if he continued in the same line of work. She wanted him to change jobs and he didn't/ couldn't.

If it isn't court ordered, in his shoes, I would look at funding the extras and reduce the spousal support by that amount. Obviously he'd still be paying the child maintenance but it seems her family are taking advantage of her good nature and she is taking advantage of his good nature.

No way he is legally obligated to pay £6k a month as well as signing the property over

Are you part to his salary, Form Es from both parties, a history of how the relationship worked, pension arrangements, etc etc?

It could well be the case that £6k is a good deal for him. There is no way of knowing unless you happen to be the solicitor who dealt with it all.

@souperdouper

There is no court order. They did mediation and he looked at what he paid to keep the house running and all associated costs and just agreed to pay her that amount. He really didn't want her and the children to have a reduced standard of living because their marriage broke down. He feels guilt for the marriage breakdown. His job isn't always the most morally white and she struggled a lot with some of the people / corporations he worked for (being as vague as possible here) and eventually felt unable to stay with him if he continued in the same line of work. She wanted him to change jobs and he didn't/ couldn't.

It seems they do have a reduced standard of living now. I'd definitely reconsider if I were him.

Unless the expectation is that he will pay the extra to cover the school fees...

Tell the bone idle fucker to get a job. Reduce payments to the absolute minimum. Then ask the kids what they want to do re other activities and pay direct. Take them on holiday himself etc

"There is no court order. They did mediation and he looked at what he paid to keep the house running and all associated costs and just agreed to pay her that amount."

It would be very unusual
not to have what they agreed ratified in a court order when the divorce was finalised.

But if they didn't, then she is unprotected and foolish and he can vary the amounts on a whim.

It sounds as if there are some on here positively salivating at this.

There is no way that someone who earns what he earns and works for a company that is not “morally white” didn’t take legal advice before he agreed to pay whatever he paid, and he will have very easy access to legal advice now if he thinks things needs to change. All the hand wringing on this thread is irrelevant- if this man is paying £6k/ month plus school fees it’s because that was the best deal he could get.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

It's not her money though is it.

It 100% is.

This is exactly what's giving him pause for thought. It is her money. Her children aren't actually suffering although it is annoying. He's fond of his nephews (BIL is another matter!) He's just thinking it's not worth opening a can of worms whilst DH and I are a bit more grumpy about it.

Honestly I think it's a background thing. Ex wife is very posh. Friend and DH and I come from more modest backgrounds, met at university in the late 1980s. We've all done well although friend is by far the most successful. They were always an odd pairing and I worry that he was and is too much in thrall to her poshness and prettiness and moral superiority.

There is no court order. They did mediation and he looked at what he paid to keep the house running and all associated costs and just agreed to pay her that amount

So that’s to his advantage then. Although of course she could seek a financial order at any point after the divorce and that would scupper his pension he is obviously still hanging on to. The more I read, the more this just reeks of someone hiding his real financial situation from all concerned. He’s just doing the stereotypical ‘look at me, hard done by dad’ shite.

Jesus! I clicked on this thread and thought it was going to be a typical “i pay my 25p and month and my ex wife has had her nails done”, but nothing like it!

Your poor friend. Paying all that money and then hearing that the kids still aren’t getting what they need

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

There is no way that someone who earns what he earns and works for a company that is not “morally white” didn’t take legal advice before he agreed to pay whatever he paid, and he will have very easy access to legal advice now if he thinks things needs to change. All the hand wringing on this thread is irrelevant- if this man is paying £6k/ month plus school fees it’s because that was the best deal he could get.

Honestly I think he's so clueless when it comes to her that I think he did. DH is going to meet him for a drink in town later this week. We have a friend who works in Family law we could suggest he talks to.

He doesn't sound like a stupid man so why didn't he get all of this legally nailed down?

Sure, he can vary his payments but she could come after his pension, either one of them could mess this up at any moment.

I just don't believe it. I think you don't know as much as you think you do, and I think you would benefit from accepting that and backing off. He doesn't need advice from mn.

She couldn’t remain married to him because his job wasn’t ‘morally white’ and yet she’s happy to accept money from this job she so strongly disapproves of to maintain a lifestyle she clearly cannot afford, playing lady bountiful to her brothers DC whilst her own DC’s lifestyle does suffer.

Honestly I think he's so clueless when it comes to her that I think he did.

Amazing that he managed to work his way up from his modest beginnings to earn such a large salary and navigate his career through this not morally white company whilst being so clueless.

It’s true that it could be a good deal for him, but I’m thinking from the POV that it must be sad to think your kids are getting what they need, and then finding they aren’t.

Yes school trips aren’t a necessity but it’s sad for kids to be the one who doesn’t get to go.

She shouldn’t be paying school fees for someone else’s kids to the detriment of her own. That’s so nuts it’s hard to believe it’s actually correct!