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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Regarding how child maintenance is spent?

149 replies

souperdouper · 09/01/2022 18:32

This isn't me. Honestly. We had dinner last night with a friend who has a bit of a dilemma so I thought I'd bring it here.

Friend is well off but via work not inheritance. He still works in a salaried position. Recently he divorced from his wife. Honestly it was a model divorce. They'd grown apart, wanted different things but are very friendly for the sake of the children. He bought a flat close to his ex wife with rooms for the 3 children, she got the house, plus a lump sum she invested plus gets £6000 a month spousal support /child support. Friend also pays all school fees as well.

Recently he noted that the children weren't getting things. The oldest said that his mum hadn't sent him on the school trip all his friends were going on because it was too expensive. Horse riding stopped. No holiday. That sort of stuff.

So... the dilemma. She has a fully paid off house, investments and 6 grand a month. Friend was wondering where money was going...

It appears her brother who has 2 slightly younger children was unhappy with their state school. He has a good job but school fees are expensive and he couldn't afford to pay for 2 children (years 7&8.) It appears my friends wife has agreed to fund his children's private education throughout secondary school which apparently doesn't leave much left over for her children's expensive extras. Apparently her investment money isn't accessible atm.

Now the AIBU- friend is thinking of just taking on all additional expenses for his children. So trips, riding, other expensive requests. However, while he's well off he's already left each month with a lot less than his ex-wife because he's paying another mortgage for his flat, and this is even more cost to him- because she's funding private education for two children who aren't his. Things are further complicated by the fact he sees the children as his nephews and is fond of them (although their parents have been a bit unpleasant to him post divorce.) DH said he was mad and should take legal advice. I'm on the fence a bit- his wife's lovely and I can see wanting to help family but it seems cheeky. However it is her money (well the spousal support bit is, but isn't some of it supposed to be child support?) and no child ever died due to the lack of a skiing holiday.

Anyway DH and I just don't think it's right but AWBU?

OP posts:
Original poster
souperdouper · 09/01/2022 20:43

I obviously don't know all the ins and outs and have fudged/ withheld a few details. However I'm hearing legal advice loud and clear. This us why I posted. DH is meeting in later this week and I don't want him going in all guns blazing if I think the actual response should be more nuanced.

There are no villains here. Genuinely. They're co-parenting brilliantly. The children aren't suffering exactly and as someone mentioned upthread her nephews are really benefitting from the school. Friend loves nephews and this complicates things.

OP posts:
MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 09/01/2022 20:44

by pretending you need £6k a month

Actually OP says this figure was arrived at by the husband looking at what it costs to run their home. He chose this figure.

Original poster
souperdouper · 09/01/2022 20:46

And it is her money. She's not that materialistic and is forgoing holidays and designer clothes etc to pay for her nephews schooling. She's asking her very privileged kids to also give up a few things and hadn't asked friend for any money to cover it.

Really- no villains. Just different perspectives perhaps.

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 09/01/2022 20:46

It’s interesting that wife couldn’t live with his, in her mind, slightly immoral earnings but is happy to take £72k off him a year. Hmm

Original poster
souperdouper · 09/01/2022 20:51

@LittleBearPad

It’s interesting that wife couldn’t live with his, in her mind, slightly immoral earnings but is happy to take £72k off him a year. Hmm
That is a very fair point
OP posts:
chaosrabbitland · 09/01/2022 20:53

@LittleBearPad

It’s interesting that wife couldn’t live with his, in her mind, slightly immoral earnings but is happy to take £72k off him a year. Hmm
lol yes its very strange , id like to be a fly on the wall if he had to sit down with this posh ex wife in 3 weeks time and tell her hes decided its all too much ,hes jacked it in and got a job on the counter at barcleys i have a feeling she would suddenly forget how much she didnt like this odd immoral job he has that earns him a huge wodge
CatsArePeople · 09/01/2022 20:54

If my little brothers children were suffering in a sink school,

From OP, the ex wife if very posh. So i doubt her brother's kids are suffering in a "sink" school. Things just don't add up

Original poster
souperdouper · 09/01/2022 20:55

Chaosrabbitland That made me smile.

Honestly it's not like he's doing PR for oil companies and then clubbing baby seals for fun. More a difference of opinion around values. A lot of people wouldn't have any problem with what he does

OP posts:
Original poster
souperdouper · 09/01/2022 20:59

@CatsArePeople

If my little brothers children were suffering in a sink school,

From OP, the ex wife if very posh. So i doubt her brother's kids are suffering in a "sink" school. Things just don't add up

They kind of were if I'm honest. No family money left and a career in the creative industries. Lovely lovely jobs but sadly you can't afford to live in London and privately educate 2 children on a creative salary.
OP posts:
Sowhatifiam · 09/01/2022 21:03

It’s interesting that wife couldn’t live with his, in her mind, slightly immoral earnings but is happy to take £72k off him a year

She's entitled to expect the father of her children to support said children. She is also entitled to expect a level of support if she has given up her career to bring up their children. It's easy to suggest she shouldn't take that money if she has an issue with where it has come from but after many years out of the workplace, it is highly unlikely she is going to be able to earn the same sums to keep her children in their home and pay for its upkeep etc. What you are saying there is that if she doesn't like it, she shouldn't accept the money - and maybe she would prefer not to but it doesn't sound like she has any option, does it? She's wholly reliant on him which is a very dangerous position to be in. I suspect she is about to find out.

A man making that kind of money, able to pay that kind of money, with no financial court order in place is benefitting somehow. Maybe rather than questioning her morals, you need to have a closer look at his. Bet there's thousands in pensions and other investments in his name only he conveniently forgot to mention at mediation.

AFP10 · 09/01/2022 21:05

@souperdouper

There is no court order. They did mediation and he looked at what he paid to keep the house running and all associated costs and just agreed to pay her that amount. He really didn't want her and the children to have a reduced standard of living because their marriage broke down. He feels guilt for the marriage breakdown. His job isn't always the most morally white and she struggled a lot with some of the people / corporations he worked for (being as vague as possible here) and eventually felt unable to stay with him if he continued in the same line of work. She wanted him to change jobs and he didn't/ couldn't.
There is so(!) much more to all this.

OP there are always 2 sides and if it was a clear cut case he probably wouldn't be discussing it with you. Sounds like some of his payment to her is hush money.

Keep out of it. All children (incl. Nephews) are having a great education, fed and housed which is all that really matters.

CatsArePeople · 09/01/2022 21:05

So can't he pay for the horse riding and skiin himself if his ex wife can't be trusted?

BungleandGeorge · 09/01/2022 21:06

During a divorce settlement they look at whether division of assets is fair so I presume it was judged to be a fair split. He needs to re-negotiate the maintenance payments if they are far in excess of those required. It’s great that he was prepared to pay more but I personally wouldn’t be happy with the money going to relatives to the detriment of his own children. He’d be far better off saving the excess money for them. I doubt she’d be entitled to much spousal maintenance if she is able bodied. In the real word it’s expected that you have to get a job to support yourself!

Cameleongirl · 09/01/2022 21:23

And it is her money. She's not that materialistic and is forgoing holidays and designer clothes etc to pay for her nephews schooling. She's asking her very privileged kids to also give up a few things and hadn't asked friend for any money to cover it.

The portion allocated as "child maintenance" really isn't "her" money, it's for their children. The portion allocated as "spousal maintenance" IS her money and she can do what she likes with it.

That's what he needs to get legal advice on and clearly separate the two payments. He can still be generous but ensure that his children's money is spent on them.

CatsArePeople · 09/01/2022 21:30

And it is her money. She's not that materialistic and is forgoing holidays and designer clothes etc to pay for her nephews schooling. She's asking her very privileged kids to also give up a few things and hadn't asked friend for any money to cover it.

But its for HIS kids' privileges, not for HER extended family. Why should his kids go without? He's not obliged to finance unrelated kids' schooling.

Original poster
souperdouper · 09/01/2022 21:44

@BungleandGeorge

During a divorce settlement they look at whether division of assets is fair so I presume it was judged to be a fair split. He needs to re-negotiate the maintenance payments if they are far in excess of those required. It’s great that he was prepared to pay more but I personally wouldn’t be happy with the money going to relatives to the detriment of his own children. He’d be far better off saving the excess money for them. I doubt she’d be entitled to much spousal maintenance if she is able bodied. In the real word it’s expected that you have to get a job to support yourself!
In fairness to him he's never going to ask her to go out and get a min wage job (which realistically is all she's qualified for) when he can afford for her not to work. She may never have been successful in her chosen career (odds are very much stacked against her) but we will never know and he's aware she sacrificed even attempting it to bring out her children. And she's a good mum.

Honestly were I her I'd be doing a degree/ training in something but that's not something she's interested in.

OP posts:
sst1234 · 09/01/2022 21:48

If all this is correct, then she is taking the piss out of him. And a bad mother for making her children go without.

chaosrabbitland · 09/01/2022 21:56

@CatsArePeople

And it is her money. She's not that materialistic and is forgoing holidays and designer clothes etc to pay for her nephews schooling. She's asking her very privileged kids to also give up a few things and hadn't asked friend for any money to cover it.

But its for HIS kids' privileges, not for HER extended family. Why should his kids go without? He's not obliged to finance unrelated kids' schooling.

, but theres still stuff like the cost of the personal trainer . the gym . dog walker that all get paid a pretty penny that if she wanted too she could dispense with this little lot and use that money to pay for a least a couple of the kids activities they used to do like the horse riding , but now cant , catarepeople is right , shes using money he gives her in part for his childrens maintance , a large sum it is indeed shes getting and shes spending it all on either her brothers kids ed or on her own stuff , its all very well shes forgoing holidays , but now so are the kids and the point is they wouldnt have to if she wasnt using 6k to fund other stuff or at least the best part of 6k
chaosrabbitland · 09/01/2022 21:59

which is why the two payments of spousal and maintanece need to get seperated , as hes just giving her this big lot and shes using it on what she wants to , which doesnt seem to be the kids actvities

Hospedia · 09/01/2022 22:05

which is why the two payments of spousal and maintanece need to get seperated

Even if they were listed separately and even if the maintenance went via the Child Maintenance Service so was clearly labelled as "this money here is child maintenance", as soon as it hits her bank account it goes into her financial 'pot' and she is free to do whatever she likes with it because she makes the financial decisions for her household.

LittleBearPad · 09/01/2022 22:05

@Sowhatifiam

It’s interesting that wife couldn’t live with his, in her mind, slightly immoral earnings but is happy to take £72k off him a year

She's entitled to expect the father of her children to support said children. She is also entitled to expect a level of support if she has given up her career to bring up their children. It's easy to suggest she shouldn't take that money if she has an issue with where it has come from but after many years out of the workplace, it is highly unlikely she is going to be able to earn the same sums to keep her children in their home and pay for its upkeep etc. What you are saying there is that if she doesn't like it, she shouldn't accept the money - and maybe she would prefer not to but it doesn't sound like she has any option, does it? She's wholly reliant on him which is a very dangerous position to be in. I suspect she is about to find out.

A man making that kind of money, able to pay that kind of money, with no financial court order in place is benefitting somehow. Maybe rather than questioning her morals, you need to have a closer look at his. Bet there's thousands in pensions and other investments in his name only he conveniently forgot to mention at mediation.

Yes she is but apparently the slightly immoral job is at least one of the reasons the marriage broke down.
LittleBearPad · 09/01/2022 22:08

They kind of were if I'm honest. No family money left and a career in the creative industries. Lovely lovely jobs but sadly you can't afford to live in London and privately educate 2 children on a creative salary.

Well that’s life isn’t it. The nephews parents have made their choices - but don’t want to accept the consequences of a state education for their children…

Dontlikeveg · 09/01/2022 22:14

@AnotherSillawithanS

I think it's none of your business and you've got some neck posting his business.
This Also, you couldn't have given more details if you tried. Stay out of it. Surely if he's earning so much, he must be a smart man. He says he wants everyone to be happy. So why does this involve you.
Sowhatifiam · 09/01/2022 22:40

Yes she is but apparently the slightly immoral job is at least one of the reasons the marriage broke down

So she should forgo child maintenance? Or spousal for that matter? R the right to a share in the house, investments, pensions? Without knowing what the job is, it’s not really easy to judge.

LittleBearPad · 09/01/2022 22:42

@Sowhatifiam

Yes she is but apparently the slightly immoral job is at least one of the reasons the marriage broke down

So she should forgo child maintenance? Or spousal for that matter? R the right to a share in the house, investments, pensions? Without knowing what the job is, it’s not really easy to judge.

I didn’t say that now did I. But it is interesting how far those qualms go….