Anyone join me in being really angry theyre a single parent?

[coodawoodashooda]

Today I have been in such a bad mood and that's why. I can't shake it off. Bastard and his meagre child maintenance that wouldn't even buy a bloody pair of shoes. All the friendships that I have lost. I am so lonely, fed up, skint and angry. Anyone else?

If there was one thing the Government could do to help all single parents (almost all women!) it would be to put a single parent exemption into the tax code to double the tax-free allowance threshold, tax and NI thresholds, thresholds for childcare support etc, to recognise that they are trying to do the jobs of two people.

You might get more support if you said single people, rather than single parent. Whilst the childcare allowance wouldn't impact them, other parts of what I think you are suggesting would.

The reason I say that is because the child free and / or single people (the ones I know), already think they pay a lot of tax and get bugger all back because they are funding single parent households. It's all well and good saying you want more help but those that are paying for that have to agree and vote for it too.

Oh and even more frustrating are the ones who have the attitude of 'it won't happen to me, because I picked well.'

@FanGirlX already think they pay a lot of tax and get bugger all back because they are funding single parent households

Why would they think that?

And if some portion of women ARE being taken in by vile men who are vile from the start, that’s just sad. It doesn’t mean we should finger-wag after the fact, as that helps absolutely no one.

Bottom line, if someone’s first reaction to discussions about single mums is asking about if it was their fault, I find that uncharitable to say the least.

Very well said.

Why would they think that?

You realise that childless people get very little from the state? But they don't get a tax reduction for not having children? If a childless person loses their job they get about £75 a week, no matter how much they've paid in.

It's all well and good deciding between you how much single parents should get from the state but you don't seem to be looking at it from non single parents perspectives. If you don't get their buy in, then you aren't going to get what you want. Look at voting patterns, for at least the last 10 years, the general population haven't been voting for more help for impoverished single parent families, have they?

@FanGirlX

If there was one thing the Government could do to help all single parents (almost all women!) it would be to put a single parent exemption into the tax code to double the tax-free allowance threshold, tax and NI thresholds, thresholds for childcare support etc, to recognise that they are trying to do the jobs of two people.

You might get more support if you said single people, rather than single parent. Whilst the childcare allowance wouldn't impact them, other parts of what I think you are suggesting would.

The reason I say that is because the child free and / or single people (the ones I know), already think they pay a lot of tax and get bugger all back because they are funding single parent households. It's all well and good saying you want more help but those that are paying for that have to agree and vote for it too.

I don't "want more help". I want less of the income I earn confiscated in recognition of the fact that I am singlehandedly supporting an entire household. That's different to a single person just supporting themselves, I never resented that in the many years I was single. I do however agree that single people are another group who are very neglected by Government policy. Almost every soundbite goes on about "hard-working families" as if people without children don't work hard, and I think that is very alienating and toxic.

For all those useless men who put everything and everybody before their children, it will come back to roost.

I brought DS up alone until I met DH when he was 18. I look at my bright fine son now, a married father of one, who got a apprenticeship at 16 to become an electrician, work twenty years at it before going to Open University and passing out with Honours degree, as has his DW.

He is more than capable and does look after his DD on his own. When his DW had to go back to her home country for 6 weeks when her Father died, DGD was 13 months old. He didn't bring her to me. He added a day to her childcare and got on with it.

I taught him to be a good son, a good husband and good father. Me all on my own.

I am so proud of him, and proud of myself.

You should be too.

@BirdScaredOfHeights

I think we may have crossed posts.

I think we are agreeing that the tax system (society in general) still benefits the traditional nuclear family, although the reality is that a big proportion of the population aren't in a traditional nuclear family any more?

[quote AlDanvers]**@FanGirlX* already think they pay a lot of tax and get bugger all back because they are funding single parent households*

Why would they think that?[/quote]
Yeah nobody's funding me. I'm a net taxpayer by a significant amount. It would just be nice if there was some recognition of my contribution both to singlehandedly raising these children and to the tax coffers, in that the amount confiscated from my pay was slightly reduced to enable me to not have to also constantly worry about money. If I can't afford the childcare anymore to keep my health from collapsing then not only will my children suffer but the state will lose all the tax I pay that helps other people, all because they wouldn't reduce it to a level where things can be sustainable. It's totally irrational.

[quote FanGirlX]@BirdScaredOfHeights

I think we may have crossed posts.

I think we are agreeing that the tax system (society in general) still benefits the traditional nuclear family, although the reality is that a big proportion of the population aren't in a traditional nuclear family any more?
[/quote]
Absolutely. 25% of households - as I believe somebody posted earlier - are single parent households. That is significant. 90% of those single parents are women, so this is one of the most significant inequality issues. Those children make up a large proportion of children growing up in poverty. So the evidence for reforming the tax code as I suggested - as a simple fix that will benefit society as a whole immensely - is very compelling.

@Maggiesgirl

For all those useless men who put everything and everybody before their children, it will come back to roost.

I brought DS up alone until I met DH when he was 18. I look at my bright fine son now, a married father of one, who got a apprenticeship at 16 to become an electrician, work twenty years at it before going to Open University and passing out with Honours degree, as has his DW.

He is more than capable and does look after his DD on his own. When his DW had to go back to her home country for 6 weeks when her Father died, DGD was 13 months old. He didn't bring her to me. He added a day to her childcare and got on with it.

I taught him to be a good son, a good husband and good father. Me all on my own.

I am so proud of him, and proud of myself.

You should be too.

That's so lovely. You are right to be proud. I hope I'm there too, one day. I am so worried I will fail them.

@AlDanvers

I don't hate it. I am not angry at being a single parent household.

I am angry that I deal with the fallout of his carousel of girlfriends, who usually end up giving me shit because he has convinced them I am desperate to have him back.

I am angry at the impact its had on the kids. I am angry that he has decided civid doesn't exist and the kids are finally pissed off at having step siblings thrust on them, a new 'step mum' every year that they don't want to bother with him. It hurts them.

I am angry that his mother has never bothered with them, but keeps gossiping about the kids, which comes back via the kids cousin. Dd is 18 and really close to her cousin, also 18 and it appears mil likes neither of them.

And people say "you should pick better" I was married to this man for 15 years. For 13 we were very happy. He worked for himself and did the majority of childcare and all the cooking and plenty of housework. He was super hands on. Then he decided that, for no reason, I must be cheating on him so started following me, hacking my phone, reading all my messages. He never found any evidence, because there was non. Then he started forcing me to have sex because (and I quote) 'I need sex because then I feel like you are mine and I have claimed you back from whoever else you are shagging'. So essentially like a dog pissing on a lamppost.

His mother and father are in the verge of splitting because his dad is so disgusted with his behaviour its causing them problems.

It simply turned out exh was only a good dad to kids if he was in a relationship with the kids mother.

I studied biology many moons ago and I remember a lecturer telling us that from a biological point of view that humans are (or were at that time) viewed as a monogamous species with a taste for pologomy and there are other species (definitely some types of birds I remember) who do the same. A percentage of the males have a family set up with one female bird and are a very attentive parent but also go off and mate with other females and abandon them and do no parenting. I definitely think a notable percentage of men are only good parents when they are in a relationship with their mother.

Biologically speaking, raising human babies is so time intensive and for such a long time period, that it is definitely extremely challenging for someone to do it on their own and has only happened that way in relatively recent times. Before modern times (& modern medicine & inventions) survival would have likely required a multigenerational family set up that would have been resilient to the removal of any individual (through health or absconding).

I do get your point though @FanGirlX. I think it would be far fairer in general if taxes and thresholds were "per household" rather than "per person". Do you think framed in that way it would have legs?

So the evidence for reforming the tax code as I suggested - as a simple fix that will benefit society as a whole immensely - is very compelling.

Is it compelling to the general electorate? Unfortunately I don't think it is.

@YungDumbThrills

I'm three months in, and this is not how I imagined our lives to be like. Estranged husband doesn't give a shit about anything but his new piece, spends maybe 4 hours a week with DS and parades selfies on Facebook like he's dad of the year. Complaining that he can't afford to feed himself, yet has left me with the house, DS, 6 animals and myself to feed, keep warm and clothe. Had enough already.

It will get easier. Hang in there and look for the upsides.

@FanGirlX

So the evidence for reforming the tax code as I suggested - as a simple fix that will benefit society as a whole immensely - is very compelling.

Is it compelling to the general electorate? Unfortunately I don't think it is.

What percentage of people are in single households? I think that is a growing proportion?

@BirdScaredOfHeights

I do get your point though *@FanGirlX*. I think it would be far fairer in general if taxes and thresholds were "per household" rather than "per person". Do you think framed in that way it would have legs?

Think we are crossing posts again 😀.

I think that the non nuclear households are disparate. You have single parents (90% mothers), child less or free singles, LGBTQ singles. Probably more types of non nuclear household set ups who are all being shafted by the current tax system. I wonder if all the non nuclear set ups got together and campaigned for change, it may make the politicians realise that it would actually be a vote winner.

That's very interesting and what I was wondering. Increasingly older people are living alone, lots of single parents, lots of single people or just people who do not want to cohabit... I wonder what the split is between those and "two adult households". Does anybody know? Because if the majority or even a significant minority make up the first group, then there is a very good case to campaign for change because the tax code as it is is extremely punative to them.

I think tax breaks would be great. Nobody wants to confront the “Why are men behaving like this and how do we alter their behaviour” issue.

The answer is that it would take years of conditioning, campaigns and re-education to achieve. Or would it? Seeing how fast we adapted to Covid restrictions makes me believe that introducing societal norms and punishments to dead beat fathers would effect change within a very few years.

Don’t see your kids- government makes you pay for childcare two days every week.
Leave your family- society disapproves strongly- suddenly it’s hard to get a girlfriend
Don’t pay child maintenance - it’s taken from your wages etc.

In theory- it should be easy. Priti would do it in a heartbeat she takes no prisoners.

@BirdScaredOfHeights

I'm in the same situation, I'm on about twice the (non London) average wage, so I'm paying for myself and DD. Statistically the majority of single mothers aren't earning what we earn though, most are low earners on benefit top ups.

@Bluntness100

I am surprised people are posting that they had wonderful relationships before kids with no red flags, living with generous loving men who when the baby arrived fucked off and then lied so they didn’t have to pay. This will happen but there is no doubt many of them were cunts before hand.

And how are women supposed to recognise these red flags with no experience of them? Or when the red flags are 'normal' to that person because of their upbringing? There's no manual or handbook to say "This behaviour means he'll fuck off if someone turns his head" or "This is a red flag and will mean he thinks he shouldn't be responsible for the concequences of his own fertility"

Society has normalised this behaviour from men by blaming women, it's acceptable for a man to move from woman to woman having children and walking away from that, so the children that have experienced that as their upbringing will view it as normal, boys seeing their fathers do it and nothing stops them, leads them into believing that this is life as it should be, and may well go on to do it themselves. Girls seeing their mothers left in this situation with no redress for their father seeing it as that's a woman's station in life.
Even if they are cunts beforehand, if you view that as normal behaviour, it's not a red flag is it?

Men's behaviour needs to change, but it won't while it doesn't have to, and it doesn't have to because there's no concequences and men are allowed to, and even encouraged to continue in this cycle, by being excused of their behaviour by blaming the women entirely, while the women also bear the physical, financial and emotional concequences of joint behaviour alone in bringing up the child or children.

Were there red flags in my relationship? Yes, looking back there were, I would be running for the hills now if presented with them. But I'm 43, I have that experience to guide me. I was 15 when I met my ex, and 24 when I had my child. I only had experience of that relationship, I talked to people of course, but relationships are about give and take, told to enjoy your life, make the most of it. I did, and when both in secure jobs with prospects we had a child.

My ex then decided, 6 months after the birth that it wasn't for him and chose to leave, he chose not to pay anything for the child he also wanted. CSA (as it was then) chose not to make him or sanction him in any way for his choices, government chose to be the financial support for my child instead of him. He went on to have another child with another woman and the same scenario followed.
I chose to meet the responsibility of the child I also wanted, I worked, I earned and I paid a lot more towards the 'upkeep' of my child than the 50% that was mine. I didn't go on to have further children, I didn't walk away, I didn't decide it wasn't for me even when I was alone, working ft and still in debt.

Yet somehow, I'm still the problem according to some people.

@SweetFelicityArkright - I found myself nodding through your post. Totally agree. For me it wasn't my DH so much but his parents’ behaviour. I look back now with astonishment but at the time my family were even actively saying I had to put up with it and even must try harder myself! At the time, it was normal for people to treat me that way and I didn’t realise I could have a life without being treated that way.

I'm friends with a non-resident father. He's a good guy, loves his daughter and has a rewarding relationship with her. I'm not friends with the mother who I always found difficult and prickly - but I recognise that she absolutely has the shitty end of the stick.

They were in a less than brilliant relationship for a few years, but both wanted a child and I think both tacitly accepted the possibility they would break up later. They split when the daughter was 18mo. He has the daughter for two days / one night for less than 20 weekends per year, plus a one week holiday. The rest of his paid holiday is spent on golf trips, city breaks and all the other stuff a single childless person can enjoy.

He thinks he has it tough because he is forced to communicate regularly with a grumpy woman who dislikes him and the conversations sometimes boil over into swearing and drama, which she usually starts. I can see that it's not enjoyable to be yelled at because a 7yo has forgotten her coat, and it's not necessary when you only live ten miles away and can easily sort the problem out. But ...

They both chose to introduce a baby into a wonky relationship. The child's mother has given up her career progression, her chance of a new relationship, and 95% of her free time. I can understand why she's always so cross.

@FanGirlX

Why would they think that?

You realise that childless people get very little from the state? But they don't get a tax reduction for not having children? If a childless person loses their job they get about £75 a week, no matter how much they've paid in.

It's all well and good deciding between you how much single parents should get from the state but you don't seem to be looking at it from non single parents perspectives. If you don't get their buy in, then you aren't going to get what you want. Look at voting patterns, for at least the last 10 years, the general population haven't been voting for more help for impoverished single parent families, have they?

Missing the point completely.

Many single people also get UC, while in work
Many couples get UC because wages aren't high enough
Many single parents work and pay tax.
If single parents didn't exist, they would still be paying tax.

Where single parents, specifically are being 'paid for' it's more than likey that single parent is getting extra support because the other parent decided they dont need to take responsibility. So actually they should frame it 'I am paying for people who have kids and then fuck off'.

Again, why specifically do your friends think they are paying for single parent families?

Yanbu. At all. I hate that our kids and I are stuck in the hovel which he refused to spend any money on with no heating and no oven while he lives with his gf and her kids in a lovely home.
I hate that he tells the kids how he loves them when he has them for one overnight a week. Not including our dd as she cant stand his gf.
I hate that he is still controlling me financially(abusive all through marriage),lying to court about debts while he and his new family booked a holiday to Thailand.
My mum warned me that being a single parent was the hardest thing ever. She was right.