Anyone join me in being really angry theyre a single parent?

[coodawoodashooda]

Today I have been in such a bad mood and that's why. I can't shake it off. Bastard and his meagre child maintenance that wouldn't even buy a bloody pair of shoes. All the friendships that I have lost. I am so lonely, fed up, skint and angry. Anyone else?

@Bluntness100

No one is debating your experience of being a child of a single parent- but BEING a single parent is a completely different experience. I should know, I’m both.

You and your son refer to his father as "the arsehole?" Honestly, I wouldn't recommend that. I'd worry that, in time, this will be detrimental to your son's well being

My son has been much better since he's been allowed to speak about his father freely thank you, without people saying oh you shouldnt say things like that he's your father be kind.

he was an abusive threatening arse, my son remembers him as the guy who threatened to throw himself in front of a bus because my son ate a slice of ham without permission, threatened to smash my sons toys with a hammer, punched walls, and kept walking off during meet ups after he left (and then sending me sniffy text messages about how he had to go home because our son was upsetting him/being a brat etc.) thats only a fraction of it but its the key ones my son remembers most and talks about, he is terrified of him, he can call him whatever he likes and think whatever he wants of him.

there was never a disney dad as some people here have described their exs, just an increasingly unhinged, paranoid control freak acting like a Drill Sargent who refused to see a doctor about his mental health/behaviour.

Sorry if my post came across wrong: I totally agree it should be totally unacceptable for men to behave like this. I am raising my son in such a way that I hope he would never do that. I just meant that I will also impress on my daughter to have nothing to do with men who have already abandoned one family. It's impossible to tell in advance that they will do this, but if they've already shown they are capable of it no woman should even be prepared to date them. That's what I mean (probably badly expressed!)

I'm sorry but it's way more complex than that. My ex is a man who was brought up in poverty by a single mum, barely able to make ends meet. His dad was in another country and did sod all other than visit once a year. He knows better. He had a poor father role model and perhaps that's the reason he's repeated the pattern, I don't know. But he knows better and he knows the impact of his actions. He probably justifies it to himself knowing that I am not like his mum in that I am educated and work full time and can handle the shit he keeps on throwing at me. Given the sympathetic approach he seems to have towards other single mums (he used to make a bee-line for them on the one day a week he did the school run, so often I was told how wonderful he was, helping fix cars etc.), I suspect what he actually hates is that what he sees is that I don't need him, want him, or otherwise miss him and he genuinely doesn't understand how that can be so! I suspect if I were more needy, if I hadn't got on with it quite as well as I did, he might be more inclined to help out. It's the sheer audacity I have to not need him that causes him to fight back, I think.

As for other women, he has had no end of women happy to be with him. Because he's a liar. He doesn't say 'hey, I'm a shite catch, I don't pay for my children' when he meets someone new. He just lies. The problem is, you have to be really on your toes to catch it - the fact that I work full time in a professional role, for example, is enough to give our children what they need. They are polite and clean and supported in their education. So they don't look like/sound like/feel like children who come from a home where there is a financial struggle going on. What these women always seem to fail to do is join the dots - I am pretty sure my ex feeds the 'poor me, she got everything, I got nothing, she's lazy and I pay a fortune for those kids I only get to see once a fortnight' line to his new partners. So they see well dressed kids, polite kids etc. and they believe him. They don't think 'well, she's clearly working like a bloody trooper, maybe a sneak peak at his bank account to see if any child maintenace is going out...' I don't blame them, but I do think there is a need to see the bigger picture - any man can lie. Any man can be plausible in those lies. If you've never dated a man with children before and you don't have your own children to begin to compare things with, how do you untangle the lies from the truth? Why wouldn't you believe what he says? I am more judgemental to the women who have children because they should have the experience to question a bit more deeply but then, he's a massive liar and you want to believe him, that's the end of it.

I don't think you can ever teach any woman to avoid men like this because they know they're shite catches but will do whatever they can to cover that. Some are very, very good at that covering. It is a minefield. The only way to tackle this is for a massive societal shift to take place. But men have to be on board to do that.

@fangirlx you were the one that posted their thoughts on the discussion. Where it wasn't needed and it appears you agree with them.

It doesn't matter how many believe single parents are why their taxes are high, they are wrong.

Turns out the people you are talking about are just ignorant of how tax works, how benefits work, families in general, wages, single parent families in general, the reasons people usually end up as single parents.....and just pick an easy target to blame their woes on.

I am lucky, I earn a very high wage pay alot out in tax. That's how it works. That's the the deal.

Imagine then moaning about the tax I pay and blaming a group who are in a difficult position because of the other feckless parent. It says alot that these mystery people have a problem with the parent who stuck around, usually women, not the one that fucked off. Usually men. Wonder why that is?

@Bluntness100 is usually happy to stand up for herself but I do think some posters are being too harsh.

I am a single mum and I am also the product of a single parent family. This had an impact on both my sisters and I in that it made us determined to be financially independent. I suspect the reason @Bluntness100 has striven to only have children with a decent man is because of her upbringing - in a single parent family when things were much worse for single mothers than they are now. She probably did swerve shit men when she was younger because she would have been on high alert for warning signs.

I know not all men give off warning signs but many do - you see it on here all the time. I think her posts are coming from a position of frustration that many women aren't equipped to swerve these men.

[quote AlDanvers]@fangirlx you were the one that posted their thoughts on the discussion. Where it wasn't needed and it appears you agree with them.

It doesn't matter how many believe single parents are why their taxes are high, they are wrong.

Turns out the people you are talking about are just ignorant of how tax works, how benefits work, families in general, wages, single parent families in general, the reasons people usually end up as single parents.....and just pick an easy target to blame their woes on.

I am lucky, I earn a very high wage pay alot out in tax. That's how it works. That's the the deal.

Imagine then moaning about the tax I pay and blaming a group who are in a difficult position because of the other feckless parent. It says alot that these mystery people have a problem with the parent who stuck around, usually women, not the one that fucked off. Usually men. Wonder why that is?[/quote]
@AlDanvers

I'm not going to argue with someone who struggles to comprehend written English.

@FanGirlX OK, whatever you say.

Your point wasnt that people, incorrectly view single parents as a drain on society. You argued their case.

The fact that you chose to associate with these people who look down on (and blame) single parents, is a real shame. As is the fact that you haven't challenged them on it.

I would never claim to be raising my son in a way that means he wont do similar to his father when he grows up (and his father before him). you have no idea how anyone is going to behave in years to come, how lifes challenges affect them.

all I can say is if he does in the future I'll be straight round the girlfriends to find out what happened and I would take anything he says with a pinch of salt, I know the routines they come out with. I wouldnt abandon grandkids if my son is being an arse and I certainly wouldnt let him off.

I do think there is a fundamental problem with men not taking responsibility for their children. This happens even when the child is born and you're in a couple - everything falls to the mother. Once the father leaves, even the most devoted father often changes and even if they pay, believe that they are paying the mother and resentment grows. Many fathers do just fuck off, or get remarried and don't support their children. Some mothers do of course choose badly, - why would you pick someone who had cheated on their previous partners? But really the blame has to go the fathers.

But that said, policy makers and the public either forget about or even worse judge and punish single mothers. Benefits, jobs, childcare, tax etc all discriminate against single parents (mothers). You only need to read the UC/benefits threads on here to see what society thinks of single mothers. It's horrible. And yes, single parents should make their voices heard. But most of them are just too exhausted or busy to do anything. And the bigotry and hate directed is just overwhelming.

And fwiw the one thing I will tell my daughters to do is to keep on working. To never rely on a man. I think that is in our control - the crap dads aren't, but it is in our power to carry on working.

And fwiw the one thing I will tell my daughters to do is to keep on working. To never rely on a man. I think that is in our control - the crap dads aren't, but it is in our power to carry on working

This. I simply don’t believe that the majority of sensible women just ignore The Red Flags or are Better Equipped like Bluntness 🙄 to spot them and I think the very few who do are not relevant to this discussion. Those are usually specific circumstances, and by far men, whose value system collapsed once they faced the real hard work and pressure of children and providing for a family, outweigh them. My marriage literally disintegrated over the course of two days whrn I was heavily pregnant. There had been no signs. He met someone else and that was it. I didn’t discover it till later but once he gave himself permission to do it that was it - repeatedly unfaithful. I knew my marriage had changed but I could never understand why till he confessed all a few years later.

I have a dd and I tell her over and over, get a career that you’ll always be able to go back to. It’s the most valuable piece of advice and lesson that we as mothers can give to our daughters,

And fwiw the one thing I will tell my daughters to do is to keep on working. To never rely on a man. I think that is in our control - the crap dads aren't, but it is in our power to carry on working.

and what happens when the planned for child comes out and the father says fuck you I am not changing my hours to suit your job (even tho they said they would before making you pregnant) and your job is minimum wage so doesnt pay enough to cover the childcare you would need to still do it?

alot of men will use your social statues against you, your the mum its your responsibility, they will not stay home and care for their own children and you know if you acted like them and went to hell with the kid I'm going to the pub, you would be vilified because you are mum, they wont be vilified for it, they do it all the time, pub after work with the work mates, watching the footy until 10pm when everyone knows they are a father, no one bats an eyelid do they.

you have a very middle class view I must say, even when the kids are in school its very hard to find a job that works around the school hours and terms when you have a bastard that wont play ball, refuses to take any holidays in line with the school ones so he can look after the kids while you work, or simply isnt able too because they work in an industry where saying you cant work over Christmas for example will get you sacked.

I really dont think you fully understand why women end up with no jobs as single mums, or stuck in part time ones and how that contributes massively to the sex pay gap and discrimination of breeding aged women and mothers.

you have a very middle class view

Some of us single mums are middle class. I only get child benefit because my pension contributions reduce my salary to below the cut off. No other benefits. We aren't all living in poverty.

you have a very middle class view I must say, even when the kids are in school its very hard to find a job that works around the school hours and terms when you have a bastard that wont play ball, refuses to take any holidays in line with the school ones so he can look after the kids while you work, or simply isnt able too because they work in an industry where saying you cant work over Christmas for example will get you sacked.
I don't think it is a middle class / working class (or white collar / blue collar) divide. Professional jobs are equally unforgiving of single mothers (maybe with some exceptions such as government / civil service jobs), only from a different perspective. In my (thankfully, reasonably well paid) position, I am competing against equally qualified men with, almost invariably, SAHM wives. They don't have a slightest idea when the book day is.

@forinborin

you have a very middle class view I must say, even when the kids are in school its very hard to find a job that works around the school hours and terms when you have a bastard that wont play ball, refuses to take any holidays in line with the school ones so he can look after the kids while you work, or simply isnt able too because they work in an industry where saying you cant work over Christmas for example will get you sacked. I don't think it is a middle class / working class (or white collar / blue collar) divide. Professional jobs are equally unforgiving of single mothers (maybe with some exceptions such as government / civil service jobs), only from a different perspective. In my (thankfully, reasonably well paid) position, I am competing against equally qualified men with, almost invariably, SAHM wives. They don't have a slightest idea when the book day is.

It is because a minimum wage job or one slightly above will not cover childcare or a nanny.

thats precisely why I gave up my job, childcare for the hours I worked = more then my take home pay and that was without even factoring in public transport costs and lunch (my contract hours were 37.5 a week btw).

Actually I don't have a middle class view of it at all. I know really well the realities of working and childcare and what life is like for single parents. I know too many single parents who are earning £15k a year and who don't have any input from their exes. I know too many single parents who can't afford to leave, or who have to give up their jobs when they get pregnant. And while i don't blame those women at all for their situation, I certainly will do all I can to ensure my girls have more choices.

But if my daughters are in reasonably paid jobs that mean that they can carry on working if the father of their children fucks off, or which mean that they afford to get out of abusive, unpleasant or crap relationships, then that is a positive.

When I got pregnant (we had been together 7 years by then) we had a joint income of 37k but most of that was his.

It is because a minimum wage job or one slightly above will not cover childcare or a nanny.
Fair point, but paying thousands of childcare even out of a decent professional salary does not leave much for the mother either, especially as childcare subsidies don't exist at that level at all. I mean, there's a brand new nursery that opened just opposite me and the fees are £1900 for a full time place for under-twos, which I understand to be quite normal now for London - and it isn't a posh place, it is one of the generic chain ones. That's ~40K in terms of the mother's gross salary (assuming marginal higher rate tax) - before she eats, pays rent or any bills.
Single motherhood is just shit on almost all levels, just different flavours of shit.

I don’t think it’s a middle class view to encourage your daughter to have a skilled job/career she can always go back to. Eg my friend is a sewing machinist. She lived abroad with her ex H and every time she came home she picked up casual work using her skill as there was a shortage of skilled workers where she lived. When the marriage broke down she returned and was working the day after she arrived.

I had a husband who wouldn’t pick up the slack so I wasn’t able to work but this is only temporary for most women, they can go back once children are in school. I know it’s not easy, I lived it, but it’s easier than if you have no career or skill set to fall back on once your child does begin to be more independent.

Some of us single mums are middle class. I only get child benefit because my pension contributions reduce my salary to below the cut off. No other benefits. We aren't all living in poverty

Agreed. Society as a whole believes is to be stupid, uneducated and inherently poor. It can’t cope when that is clearly not the case.

I really dont think you fully understand why women end up with no jobs as single mums, or stuck in part time ones and how that contributes massively to the sex pay gap and discrimination of breeding aged women and mothers

I think in some cases, that might be correct. But not all. I had 2 under 5 and one on the way when my ex left. I was also a SAHM. I spent several years on benefits because it simply wasn’t financially viable for me to work, let alone have me manage the logistics of 3 in 3 different settings. I was lucky - educated with work experience. I was able to retrain as a teacher within a year when my youngest could go to the school nursery so all 3 were in the same place with wrap around care. I don’t have to worry about school holidays. I was able to do supply at the point where life was getting the better of me and I had caring responsibilities for my mum as well. I can supplement my income with tutoring and exam marking, at home, with my children asleep upstairs. I also had a good divorce settlement, own my own home with no mortgage and inherited a small fortune when I lost my parents. I am very, very ‘lucky’ compared with many of my single parent contemporaries.

More than anyone, I understand how the logistics of single parenting came together to help me succeed at single parenting and I in no way blame other single parents for things not working out in the same way. It’s hard - on many, many, many levels - to make things fit.

You are utterly unreasonable to use the word ‘breeding’.

@LondonWolf

I don’t think it’s a middle class view to encourage your daughter to have a skilled job/career she can always go back to. Eg my friend is a sewing machinist. She lived abroad with her ex H and every time she came home she picked up casual work using her skill as there was a shortage of skilled workers where she lived. When the marriage broke down she returned and was working the day after she arrived.

I had a husband who wouldn’t pick up the slack so I wasn’t able to work but this is only temporary for most women, they can go back once children are in school. I know it’s not easy, I lived it, but it’s easier than if you have no career or skill set to fall back on once your child does begin to be more independent.

How skilled is skilled, I think she'd have to be a top barrister or MP to.

I havent got a job in 5 years, it has to be around the school hours, there isnt any and I have no retail experience etc, I have experience in a very niche field that normally expects long hours and working weekends, its a very sought after industry, video games.

@Sowhatifiam

Some of us single mums are middle class. I only get child benefit because my pension contributions reduce my salary to below the cut off. No other benefits. We aren't all living in poverty

Agreed. Society as a whole believes is to be stupid, uneducated and inherently poor. It can’t cope when that is clearly not the case.

I really dont think you fully understand why women end up with no jobs as single mums, or stuck in part time ones and how that contributes massively to the sex pay gap and discrimination of breeding aged women and mothers

I think in some cases, that might be correct. But not all. I had 2 under 5 and one on the way when my ex left. I was also a SAHM. I spent several years on benefits because it simply wasn’t financially viable for me to work, let alone have me manage the logistics of 3 in 3 different settings. I was lucky - educated with work experience. I was able to retrain as a teacher within a year when my youngest could go to the school nursery so all 3 were in the same place with wrap around care. I don’t have to worry about school holidays. I was able to do supply at the point where life was getting the better of me and I had caring responsibilities for my mum as well. I can supplement my income with tutoring and exam marking, at home, with my children asleep upstairs. I also had a good divorce settlement, own my own home with no mortgage and inherited a small fortune when I lost my parents. I am very, very ‘lucky’ compared with many of my single parent contemporaries.

More than anyone, I understand how the logistics of single parenting came together to help me succeed at single parenting and I in no way blame other single parents for things not working out in the same way. It’s hard - on many, many, many levels - to make things fit.

You are utterly unreasonable to use the word ‘breeding’.

Why its true employers are not keen on employing breeding aged women its been well documented recently.

Me and ds1 refer to his dad as the arsehole (and worse)

He's 26 now so unlikely to have any detrimental affects. The guy is an arsehole

But if my daughters are in reasonably paid jobs that mean that they can carry on working if the father of their children fucks off, or which mean that they afford to get out of abusive, unpleasant or crap relationships, then that is a positive.

Exactly this. I have 2 sisters, we are the products of a single mother family. All 3 of us are degree, MSc, post grad, professionally qualified. We are all higher earners and little sis and I didn't have children until mid-late 30s because we were establishing our careers and accruing financial security first. Big sis doesn't have kids. All of us will be fine, men in tow or not.

I do think there is a fundamental problem with men not taking responsibility for their children.

That is the problem, but as this thread has shown, there are still too many in society who can't wait to blame and put the boot into the single mothers who provide financially, practically and emotionally for their children.

Agreed. Society as a whole believes is to be stupid, uneducated and inherently poor. It can’t cope when that is clearly not the case.

Some single mothers are, others aren't. There is a poverty trap associated with being a single mum - working part time in NMW jobs topped up by benefits because it looks like the most financial viable option at the time (due to the benefit top ups). What happens when the kids grow up and the benefits stop though? Single, middle / old aged woman with a low paid job, no savings, no pension, living in a rented bed sit or shared house?