To think Pope Francis is talking out of his arse here?

[CounsellorTroi]

Says couples who prefer pets to children are selfish. It’s a bit rich from someone who effectively chose not to have children when he became a priest.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/05/pope-couples-choose-pets-children-selfish

We’re not short of people on this earth. We’re not short of children. What is terrible is that so many of them live in poverty.

I’m not taking any advice from the head of one of the wealthiest institutions on earth on this.

www.wsj.com/articles/vatican-uses-donations-for-the-poor-to-plug-its-budget-deficit-11576075764

Disgusting. The hypocrisy is staggering.

It really is astonishing how much the Catholic Church is worth

"Catholic pontiff strongly in favour of making babies SHOCKER!"

Said no one ever

Isaiah 54:1-6

The Message

"Spread Out! Think Big!
54
1-6 “Sing, barren woman, who has never had a baby.
Fill the air with song, you who’ve never experienced childbirth!
You’re ending up with far more children
than all those childbearing women.” God says so!
“Clear lots of ground for your tents!
Make your tents large. Spread out! Think big!
Use plenty of rope,
drive the tent pegs deep.
You’re going to need lots of elbow room
for your growing family.
You’re going to take over whole nations;
you’re going to resettle abandoned cities.
Don’t be afraid—you’re not going to be embarrassed.
Don’t hold back—you’re not going to come up short.
You’ll forget all about the humiliations of your youth,
and the indignities of being a widow will fade from memory.
For your Maker is your bridegroom,
his name, God-of-the-Angel-Armies!
Your Redeemer is The Holy of Israel,
known as God of the whole earth.
You were like an abandoned wife, devastated with grief,
and God welcomed you back,
Like a woman married young
and then left,” says your God."

So the Bible suggests procreation is not everything. This shows how someone's influence can still spread far and wide without having biological children. In fact you'd probably have more time for other people.

Why would the Pope say what he did?

@Smorgasborb

The UK as one example, has a multi-million pound pet industry while 4.3 million children live below the poverty line

So the answer is less children. More education in contraception (catholic church against) freely available abortion options (catholic church against) more sex education (Catholic Church against) rather than the vilification of people with pets. The Catholic Church is at fault here.

People with pets can love their animals and give to animal and human charities at the same time. I do. It's not a zero sum game.

This with bells on.

The implication is that those with money and no children need to stop having pets (no joy or companionship for you, it’s your own fault you don’t have a proper family) and start giving away all your money to those with children or those in poverty.

Or have kids and hope they don’t end up contributing to the number of those already in poverty?

It’s all bloody infuriating.

The only reason anyone can come up with for not having kids being selfish is that we’re not adding to the next generation that’ll support us and wipe our arses when we get old.

Which is one reason I can’t wait until euthanasia is legalised. This argument will finally have to end, and we’ll be able to turn it right back on those who’ve thrown it at us for decades - we paid large amounts of tax for the healthcare, education and welfare of your kids, knowing we’d not benefit from them in old age. That’s as far away from selfish as it’s possible to get.

Maybe the Catholic church could concern itself with the lives of the millions of children in the world who live and die in poverty before it encourages the faithful to bring more children into the world. Even if it just worried about the Catholic ones that'd be an improvement.

@Porcupineintherough, something which the Bible passage, I quoted earlier, I think alludes to.

I think el papa might just be softening us up to tell us he’s got rid of the cat cos he has a few offspring knocking about

@WindyState

He's the pope and a member of the catholic church.

Being a bit unhinged comes with the territory.

What, all 1.3 billion of them?

@heyhoehey

Isaiah 54:1-6

The Message

"Spread Out! Think Big!
54
1-6 “Sing, barren woman, who has never had a baby.
Fill the air with song, you who’ve never experienced childbirth!
You’re ending up with far more children
than all those childbearing women.” God says so!
“Clear lots of ground for your tents!
Make your tents large. Spread out! Think big!
Use plenty of rope,
drive the tent pegs deep.
You’re going to need lots of elbow room
for your growing family.
You’re going to take over whole nations;
you’re going to resettle abandoned cities.
Don’t be afraid—you’re not going to be embarrassed.
Don’t hold back—you’re not going to come up short.
You’ll forget all about the humiliations of your youth,
and the indignities of being a widow will fade from memory.
For your Maker is your bridegroom,
his name, God-of-the-Angel-Armies!
Your Redeemer is The Holy of Israel,
known as God of the whole earth.
You were like an abandoned wife, devastated with grief,
and God welcomed you back,
Like a woman married young
and then left,” says your God."

So the Bible suggests procreation is not everything. This shows how someone's influence can still spread far and wide without having biological children. In fact you'd probably have more time for other people.

Why would the Pope say what he did?

Because the Pope outranks the Bible in Catholicism. It's not like other types of Christianity where the Bible is used to refer to for everything. The Pope is supposed to be on an uninterrupted line back to the apostle of Jesus and is there to interpret the word of God in an ever developing world. He can deviate from the Bible and tell Catholics which parts are relevant and which aren't. Necessary because the Bible contradicts itself over and over again.

I'm lapsed and agree that people shouldn't have children they don't want. But I also think that not having children and devoting your life to prayer and service is different to not having children because you want a dog instead. I think there is a spiritual discussion that could be had on how meaningfully our time is spent in a world where convenience is freeing us more than ever before. But the answer isn't to just have children imo.

Archipiscoupss is not impressed!

But I also think that not having children and devoting your life to prayer and service is different to not having children because you want a dog instead.

People don't get dogs because they choose them over children.

Plenty of people simply don't want children and do want a dog. They haven't had to make a choice between the two. Children aren't on the table at all for many people, for many reasons.

Like any religion, Catholicism relies on new intake. Indoctrination, rather than conversion, provides the numbers needed.

Thanks, @WrongWayApricot, I think I understood this perspective more now, although I don't necessarily agree entirely with it. But them I'm not Roman Catholic!

Funny how we only seem to need to have a spiritual discussion about what people without children are doing. Parents are just automatically assumed to be spiritual.

Why does it matter to anyone else if I got a dog instead of having a child? Why does that require an existential discussion on how I’m using my time on earth? Can’t you just be happy with your own lot and leave me alone to create my own version of a family?

If the Pope is in favour of families, he can end celibacy within the Church and allow priests to marry.

Until that point (and until women can ascend the clerical hierarchy, just as men can) I am going to discount what he says on this issue.

YANBU. I usually really like Pope Francis but this is just an offensive thing to say- it’s bad for the environment to have loads of children - and it contradicts what he said a few years ago about Catholics not needing to breed like rabbits!

It’s also intolerable for a man who doesn’t have children, and will never experience Fatherhood, let alone pregnancy and it’s attendant horrors to declare people should have more children. It’s women who end up bearing the brunt, and nowadays quite frankly most of us would rather do other things - and we shouldn’t be blamed for that.

As with some other religious leaders, he'd do better to deal properly with the filth in his own church than tell others what to do
Won't happen of course, but it would be nice all the same

What with contraception and people having pets they're running out of members for their cult

As my mum says about using contraception- it's not the Pope who has to give birth then feed and clothe the kids.

He's head of a religion that bestows the responsibility on all followers to increase the number of people following that faith (other religions also do this): either through conversion or creation of new catholics. So not very surprising, really. It's not much good to the church of followers keep having dogs instead of children - the dogs just cannot be relied upon to go to church.

Religions should have learned by now to stay out of people's sex lives. Anything they have got to say on the matter is unhelpful, at best.

To think Pope Francis is talking out of his arse

No change there then. The hypocracy is staggering.

@newusername2009

How on earth is this funny. Bit sick to make jokes like that really

Agreed.

We know how much lifelong pain that kind of thing brings.

Dreadful to laugh at it.