Middle Class/Upper middle class most frugal with money (in a good way!)

[Montana7]

Out of our friends with dc the same age as ours the most middle class & upper middle seem to be the most frugal & love a bargain.. Many are very high earners yet dc wear second hand clothes, uniforms, the families are very good with food & pride themselves on zero waste... Have great holidays think safaris, multiple ski trips pre covid but always prided themselves on getting the best deals... I think its bloody brilliant & after realising how much disposable cash DH & I fritter away especially around Christmas I aspire to be more frugal... Aibu to suggest the mc/umc appreciate the value of money more or is it just the ones we know...

@araiwa

You're not being frugal if you keep horses ffs

Agree... Horses need money to keep them well. If one has own land, obviously it's cheaper, but a horse kept as it should be kept is far from 'Frugal'. However, people can skimp in other areas to afford their horse.

People prioritise different things to spend their money on. Snobby people also think it looks better not to flash the cash, so pretend to be frugal.

I have a friend who went from lower working class to upper middle class and she was a lot more generous when she was poor.
By that I mean we would go out in a group and split the bill no issue now she insists everything is itemised 😂
I've gone from working class to lower middle class and I worried more when I didn't have enough pennies in the bank. Now I'm less bothered if someone spent £3 more on a drink than I did!
I just laugh apparently it's how the rich stay rich!

@penjo

I don't know what 'class' mumsnet would call me - please enlighten me!

From the outside we look affluent - we own a deatched home with garden in a nice area with a huge mortgage, we are both aged 25.

But if you look at our budget it's a different story. More than half our takehome goes on the mortgage (We are now on one (DH) income since I've chosen to become SAHM ). We haven't had any inheritance or high paying jobs and a lot of people ask us how we've afforded a house so young. The answer is we both saved every penny - didn't go to university, got jobs straight out of school, worked overtime, never take holidays, never eat out, hardly buy clothes and they're from sainsburys if I do(best mix of quality and price I've found anywhere), cut each other's hair at home, no nails, tans, or other beauty treatments, no cigarettes or vapes, no ready meals, hardly drink alcohol, no pets, walk rather than drive, use own brand everything rather than leading brands, turn lights off and appliances off when not in use. We don't have Amazon prime, Netflix, magazine subscriptions, all those things where money is leaking out your account every month. We don't have a gardener or a cleaner or a gym subscription, imo those things cancel each other out by the calories we burn gardening and cleaning! Every single penny is watched and counted, I would say we live very very frugally.
So, of our takehome : 50% roughly is mortgage, 20% is utilities, 10% is groceries, 10% is donations and gifts, the other 10% covers clothes and nappies for my son, fuel, DIY costs, medical costs, all the other miscellanea.

The point of that whole load of waffle was in case any of ours ways of scrimping help you OP? You said you were looking for ideas. It's hard work to improve your financial situation but we have done it by scrimping (you'll notice we have a large giving budget though - call it karma or whatever, scrooges dont prosper). Every penny counts and people with an attitude of 'oh it's only one takeaway a week' are shooting themselves in the foot. The rich people I know can afford to spend on those things because they've scrimped first to get into a good financial position .

I have many family members who've done all of that and still haven't been able to afford to buy because their rent so high. More in many cases than a mortgage would be.

I have always equated class with class and not money.

The idea that you can buy class with mere cash does not sit well with me.

Surely class reflects taste and interests plus the circles in which you move.

I may be off the point of this thread however.

I know loads of nice Middle Class couples who pretend they are hard-up (or maybe in their mind they are ), for example they can't afford a round in the pub (bring £5 in their pocket for 1 drink for themselves), can't afford a tip when eating out, always talking about shopping at Aldi (when it turns out they were there once to try the chocolate), always talk about being hard up...

It's an act the pre-empt jealousy I think?

My "poor" friend with 2 kids in Uni who don't have a student loan, who has just been on holiday to Tobago, has no money for dog treats or poo bags so always needs some of mine when we meet, she also has a cleaner but can't afford to tip the cleaner at Christmas. Also, the Tobago trip was obviously a bargain and they ate out in shacks for £7 a meal. So it was not really a luxury trip. As in fact they are quite poor. Next month they go skiing. Very cheaply though, as they are very poor

I like meeting up with her as I am fascinated by her thought processes and her life. She genuinely is constantly stressed out about money, so I don't ever wish I was her...

@Freelady

PenguinIce to answer your question.. its because a middle class person who dressess dc in secondhand but goes to the ski slopes may be percieveing that as a value added thing.. a councoius tribe choice to be frugal / re cycling clothes .. and the holiday also value added.. sport/ new experiences / meeting people.. all seen as good .

When , as you say a wc person dresses dc in second hand ,and buys an i phone..( your eg not mine !) Its seen as less good is because an i phone has no added value of things that are valued (as in the middle class holiday..)as its sat on a phone rather than adventure/ sport/ fresh air .. therefore the judegement may come from and is a stament about what you value .. probably in both cases ?
For eg . I do not value phones or dishwashers. We did have a horse. All my money went on that horse .. no holidays , clothes etc. Its what yiu value. It was to provide dc with a passion, fresh air , delay her from.going off with boys (!)
Re the wc thing v mc thing.. i think some wc people get judged for their choices without understanding . I worked in public services for many years. Often the sterotype of the benefits mum with nails and lashes but no money for food was absouteltelty accurate.. that was , for some,because the more poor a person was the more pressure to appear extemally not to be was the case.
Wereas the circles i mixed in . Think... green party , veggi, trendy part of the city.. dc wore second hand as either they didnt need to prove anything/ were tribe signaling / virture signalling .. it was NOTcool at all to buy yr dc new clothes or phone s.. Dc at school all had violins etc.. in fact our dc was looked at a bit odd for liking football and wearing a football shirt.. most ds were rugby and skaters .
Intresting stuff. I only wanted to answer yr question but ranted on !

That iPhone could be the only access to internet for the whole household. Giving them access to free sites on social media; the ability to apply for jobs etc. If that’s the case I think it is more added value than a middle class holiday 🤷‍♀️

@Ninkanink

It’s much easier and more palatable to be frugal when it’s a choice. It’s also much easier and more palatable when you already have everything you need and an abundance more. Frugality in the little things feels really good when you can comfortably afford to pay for the big things.

This

However some upper class people don’t actually have much disposable income. They are asset rich

True. There are many variables and variations and no hard and fast rules. However as OP set it out I think my summary applies in many cases.

I don't think it's anything to do with class - it's comes down to values and what you personally consider to be a priority.

I know WC people who are frugal and scrimp and save and WC people who have the threadbare carpet thing but get Botox injections and spend money they can't really afford at Christmas. I also know MC people who are both ends of this spectrum too. But most are somewhere in-between.

MN is class obsessed!

MN is class obsessed!

It's reflecting a very class-divided society. Mn is only different in that people are overt about discussing class stereotypes, prejudices and shibboleths, whereas in RL for most people it's unconscious, or at least undiscussed.

I used to shop at Aldi so we could afford our ski holiday. Surely that's just savvy shopping.

@Cactu

They’re not being frugal. They are spending an absolute fortune maintaining their lifestyle.

These people may buy the odd bag of second hand clothes for their children but overall they will spend more than the average on clothing their children. You know they will purchase good quality waterproofs, coats, shoes including things like walking boots. If their children need anything it can be bought immediately at whatever price is convenient.

The well off have absolutely no idea how little disposable income the majority of families have so you simply cannot take it seriously when they tell you they ‘don’t spend much’.

I agree with this. Having a skiing trip and a few other luxury holidays a year is not frugal.

I think it is a case of what is a priority to you. I wear shit clothes and don't do beauty treatments, cars or holiday abroad, but I will spend decent money to eat relatively well (well a lot for an Aldi shop anyway).

I think some wealthy people will sing from the rooftops about their frugal life style when it just amounts to growing veg (which actually is an expensive past time compared to going to Aldi to just buy the veg) and buying a few second hand clothes. I think a lot of these people feel a bit guilty deep down about their wealth and do it to try and look more eco-conscious, as it is fashionable in these circles. Still happy to buy a diesel guzzling 4x4 and go abroad 3+ times a year though. I guess it all evens out when you look at the big picture. You don't really know anyone's financial situation so you really cannot tell.

I think it's a bit of a myth that poor people like labels, when I was dirt poor I really didn't choose between wearing Nikes and eating like some people (who again probably have never been poor and like these stereotypes) want to think. It's another myth to make people with money feel less guilty about not being very generous, as is rich people are actually very frugal and that's why they are rich. These stereotypes are just covert poor/class bashing really.

@vivainsomnia

I read this type of comment a lot on Mumsnet and I don't understand it. You seriously never notice your friend looking good or wouldn't see if they'd had their hair done or had bird poo on their coat But looking good to me doesn't mean dress in labels or hair cut in a posh salon. Looking good to me means looking healthy, happy and dressed in clothes that suits their personality. Surely that can't be that strange of a concept?

Yet you can notice a 'nicer' house
Nicer as in bigger in a nicer area. Would be hard to miss even when not looking for distinguished signs

I don't think looking means wearing particular labels either. You said you don't look though, that you wouldn't know if your friends jacket was Asda or Berghaus because you don't notice their jacket. It's that part I don't understand how do you look but not look? For example I think to Emma's coat or dress is nice and look for the brand or ask where she got it. I don't look for brands to see who's wearing what but I do notice them.

I’m in Scotland and in my area Iv never heard anyone talking about class. I look at some of these comments and cringe.

Since when is tech more important than nourishment?

Presumably she didn’t eat a potato every day?!

In the example with the big TV and threadbare carpets, first carpet is significantly more expensive than a TV and much harder to move it if your accommodation is vulnerable. Secondly if you really are skint, no sports/hobbies, no clubs or trips to cinema or coffees out, visits to attractions or takeaways the TV may likely be the only source of entertainment for an entire family.

So it probably represents pretty good value.

Why does it matter to you if someone eats a potato?

@Pinkandpink

I’m in Scotland and in my area Iv never heard anyone talking about class. I look at some of these comments and cringe.

I'm in the home counties and likewise! I have some very well off friends and those scrimping to make ends meet. We all get along just fine, kids mix happily, no one points out any differences. We all know that things can change in a heartbeat and money doesn't always equal happiness.

The middle class have mortgages they can scarcely afford and expensive cars on finance. That’s why they have to seek out bargains so they can keep up the pretence of them being well off. Many of them are really stingy with their money and not generous (especially the wealthy earning 6 figures).

I agree that real aristo's are often asset rich but cash poor. I've been in a few of their houses and the kitchens, bathrooms and heating systems are out of the 50s. Old Agas, crappy cabinets and curling formica and lino. Freezing houses. They take pride in wearing the same barbours and tweeds for years and years. Concrete floor in the kitchen so they can throw the bones from the joint on the floor for the dogs... Old dial telephones in the hall.

Food wise I've know a lot of upper middle class parents who were proud of seeking out the past sell by date foods and clearance items and feeding their kids tesco own brand soft scoop ice cream and own brand foods whilst enjoying jolly nice wine and fine food at their adult dinner parties.

I also knew someone who ran the network for charity shops who said that its mainly middle class people who dress their kids in hand me downs and charity shop/jumble sale clothes. Her generalisation was that the working class were more judged on appearances - the front step being scrubbed the kids in Sunday best - which translates today to new clothes, trainers, branded football strips. Stuff that middle class parents are more sniffy about.

Mind you these are all generalisations and stereotypes. In every generalisation there's a grain of truth but not the whole truth. But I do realise its very easy to build up your own expectations - the laptop, latest mobile phones, new cars, TV subscriptions, order in and takeaways, ready meals, wine and alcohol, eating out, 'little treats' that add up to quite heavy expenditure.

@PenguinIce That iPhone could be the only access to internet for the whole household. Giving them access to free sites on social media; the ability to apply for jobs etc. If that’s the case I think it is more added value than a middle class holiday 🤷‍♀️

There are plenty of smart phones that are under £100 that have access to the internet, apps and photos. You don’t need a £500+ phone.

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The Road to Wigan Pier Quotes

The Road to Wigan Pier

byGeorge Orwell

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A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards. A man dies and is buried, and all his words and actions are forgotten, but the food he has eaten lives after him in the sound or rotten bones of his children. I think it could be plausibly argued that changes of diet are more important than changes of dynasty or even of religion....Yet it is curious how seldom the all-importance of food is recognized. You see statues everywhere to politicians, poets, bishops, but none to cooks or bacon-curers or market gardeners.

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Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don't want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit 'tasty'. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you.

George Orwell 80 years ago as true today as ever.

Sorry that quote was a mess

@FanGirlX I'm frankly amazed that anyone would consider a pedicure to be "the basics". It's about as basic as Waitrose Essential brioche.

@Pinkandpink

I’m in Scotland and in my area Iv never heard anyone talking about class. I look at some of these comments and cringe.

It's all nonsense - it is about how much money you have, other than perhaps if you are a laird, in which case you might get some respect.

But nobody cares whether you like opera or bingo, they look at what car you drive and how big your house is, and decide if they want to know you based on those criteria - ie how much money they think you have.