Middle Class/Upper middle class most frugal with money (in a good way!)

[Montana7]

Out of our friends with dc the same age as ours the most middle class & upper middle seem to be the most frugal & love a bargain.. Many are very high earners yet dc wear second hand clothes, uniforms, the families are very good with food & pride themselves on zero waste... Have great holidays think safaris, multiple ski trips pre covid but always prided themselves on getting the best deals... I think its bloody brilliant & after realising how much disposable cash DH & I fritter away especially around Christmas I aspire to be more frugal... Aibu to suggest the mc/umc appreciate the value of money more or is it just the ones we know...

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@ariela Surely the vets bills alone are high?[/quote]
No. Horse vets are amazingly cheap compared to dog/cat vets, when you consider they come to you.
Once a year annual jab (no call out fee as we're local) is just over £30, wormer you get online twice a year £40. If you're unlucky you'll get to need to call the vet out for something, but native ponies are quite hardy creatures generally. We found, for example, leg xrays were £150 vs £500 at the vet (requiring anaesthetic for a dog to keep still, horses are quite good at that and only a standing sedation needed if that because a horse can lock the knee to sleep standing up). Our natives were unshod - shoeing can add £80-90 every 6-8 weeks - and unshod effectively self trim their hooves much of the year due to road work, a trim if tied in with other horses on a farrier visit can come in about £15-£20, maybe 2-3x a year depending on the pony.

Give me horse vet costs over dog every time!

@Montana7

No not a lazy journalist at all just a mum wondering where I can start clawing back... An example would be school teacher collection, I gave 20 quid to put in pot as it was an "open" amount, had coffee after with one of the high earning mums & she asked me to pass on a fiver to the mum who was collecting... Also grumbling about having to give 3 other fivers for her other kids collections... I put 20 into each of my kids collections as I assumed that's what the others would do.. ( v affluent state school)

That is not being frugal. That is just being tight when it comes to spending on other people, not themselves!

If you keep horses and go on ski trips I don’t think frugal is the right word even if you try to save money on everything else. That’s just spending your money on the things you think are important. To me frugal means guy don’t have any habits which will burn thousands per year.

I think this is more flattery of perceived poshness/class status than anything else.

On a serious note, i am very boring MC but did not prioritise housing. I did prioritise education, travel and art. I am not like the rest of my ilk, and have always valued being a free spirit over money. Many people who share a similar background to me think i am a bit odd but seem to respect my choice not follow a prescription lifestyle. However, the only people who have ever remarked that this is 'weird' have been WC, who seem to find my values suspicious

Not all MC value the same things or share the same beliefs.
However there are traits I have perceived as WC that tend to be more 'solid' and less flexible, which remind me of the rigidity of UC.

I don't make my ethical position public, it seems such an odd thing to do, sharing details of your income and spending habits online. Nor do i care for performative 'boasting' concerning values. It all seems a bit insecure and competitive. MN is teeming with this, but since it is the internet, no one really cares how you spend, postulate or compete with your peers. No one cares what you prioritise or whether or not you spend money on ski holidays, expensive weddings or horses.

How you spend does not define you as a person, it is a very mixed bag, part imitation, partly passed down and generally put into you via the culture you were born into. I find it disturbing that there is so much attention and fixation upon class insecurity and 'performative spending' (my values are superior to yours, etc) on MN.

You. Not “guy”

It’s a good job some people are what a lot of posters are describing as thick and wasteful , and spend money on decent trainers/boots/coats/clothes .. otherwise you wouldn’t be able to buy these second hand at all!

@RoyalFamilyFan The clothes really don't tell how rich a person is. Anyone with a credit card can buy expensive clothes. My cousin's wife who lives in a condo with a spa, swimming pool, tennis courts adores primark. Someone who wears cheap clothes might just be a lover of fast fashion, they buy clothes to discard after 1/2 wears. Or they might just wear the same badly made clothes multiple times, there is no rule. So their coats will be badly made.

More reliable indications are:

1. When they bought their property and for what price- banks have affordability criteria
2. their job
3. what schools the kids go to- - even the bursary pupils at private schools nowadays tend to be above average/whether there is a nanny
4. Talk of investments

Basically you can't tell from first glance. But if you must make a guess, accent/education/job (if it is an english person) are more reliable indicators of wealth. For a foreigner, many recent immigrants tend to be more affluent due to stricter visa regulations but not always.

It’s diścussed a lot on this site because class and class distinctions absolutely do matter in the UK, and they matter a lot. Class drives everything, on every level, whether one as an individual subscribes to it or not.

That's true. It permeates everything, obvious and not so obvious.

The thing that irritates me is when people try to pretend it's a singularly British thing. It's not. There isn't a country on the planet that doesn't operate its own version of the class system. Maybe the rules and indicators are different but they still exist.

Honoured to be the first to present Sam Vimes’ theory of economic inequality:

It's like Brighthouse isn't it? People who can buy a washing machine outright will pay £300, the people who don't have £300 will buy it from Brighthouse and end up paying over £500 for the same appliance due to the high interest rates.

Same for Mortgages - the higher the LTV, the higher interest rates you pay.

This is not to mention pay day loans with extortionate interest rates, for people who are refused a loan by a Bank with more reasonable interest rates.

I know someone who plays poor, whereas in reality they have 8 properties - I'm guessing his wealth is mainly tied up in property which makes him cash poor. I don't understand why he doesn't sell some.

A friend is mine is a very high-earning non-NHS surgical consultant.

She often posts on Facebook asking if anyone has a spare secondhand school tie, or asking to borrow an item to use for a Halloween costume or World Book Day etc.

I think it’s the confidence that wealth brings. Everyone knows she can afford that stuff so isn’t asking out of need. Whereas if someone less well-off asked, they may be afraid that they’re perceived as being in need.

@PenguinIce

I do find it strange how:

Middle class people who buy their children second hand clothes but go on fancy holidays are frugal and something to aspire to. Yet lower class people who buy their children second hand clothes but have an iPhone haven’t ‘got their priorities right’ and should be shamed.

Yes. I think we need to be very aware of how our perceptions of people are shaped.

Amazing how often the word 'decent' has been mentioned in this thread? What classifies something as 'decent'? The label? The popularity? My experience is that quality is sometimes associated with price but often isn't at all.

I know what you mean because I'm really tight with money in many ways but splash out on certain things, nice but unusual holidays for instance. My kids had second hand clothes, we had cars for 12+ years but took 3 week tours around Europe etc.

I’m glad so many people have recognised a distinction between choosing to buy second have and having to out of necessity and the link to feelings like shame and embarrassment.

It’s a lot more complicated than some people just being more frugal than others.

Out of our friends with dc the same age as ours the most middle class & upper middle seem to be the most frugal & love a bargain.. Aibu to suggest the mc/umc appreciate the value of money more or is it just the ones we know

I’m torn between thinking YAB jaw droppingly U and thinking you’re being bloody hilarious and you should do stand up. I would love to see you and your rich mates showing off how much you appreciate the value of money in an overcrowded council property while surviving on Universal Credit for a couple of weeks. You wouldn’t last five minutes.

Some of you are laughable. If you’re choosing to prioritise one particular thing, then fair enough, good for you. But some of you sound so incredibly smug. Like you’re far more financially responsible than the feckless poor who could afford a skiing holiday, a big house and private education for their children if they only stopped buying a bag of crisps each week. You’re playing at being poor. And that’s ok too, if you want to cut costs in some areas and use all your money in a different area. But stop kidding yourself that it’s a skill or a talent or something to be proud of.

The charity shops I go to are in a leafy mc area - beside Waitrose FGS 😂 Contrary to popular opinion, ‘needy’ people are allowed to walk past branches of Waitrose. I mean, alarms still go off if the cheeky plebs actually try to enter, but they’re definitely allowed to walk past.

I may be frugal but I would never dream of shopping in Primark. If you can afford it you have a duty to shop ethically.

I am quite puzzled at those who say they can tell someone's class or financial status by just looking at them.

Take a gym class. There will be those dressed in all most expensive brands, then those who've bought their gear at Asda, and then the mismatched. How do you tell?

The all expensive gear might be all on credit card. The Asda person might just not care at all and find its range as comfortable. The mismatched could be on the breadline but got nice expensive shoes for their birthday.

Then you can say they are all well off because they are in a post gym, but some will have stretched themselves and will struggle to pay rent. Or it's a cheap gym but happens to be right next door where the rich person works and it's convenient to go in the way home. So how do you tell?

@Sn0tnose thankfully we don't live in North Korea so anybody can walk where they want. I said the charity shops were situated beside Waitrose to indicate the area they were in.

Presumably the charity shops would move to the less affluent areas ( with lower rates) if they thought they could make a profit there. Instead the shopping parade at the local estate has a plethora of takeaways, tanning salons and vaping shops. Make of that what you will.

Nobody with horses can be described as frugal, nobody.

You can't have heard the joke - 'how do you make a small fortune? Start with a large fortune and a horse.'

As a horse owner I am fully aware a crack cocaine habit would probably be cheaper (and at times less physically ruinous ). Anyone with horses has not chosen a life of frugality, believe me.

@Mountaingoat12

I may be frugal but I would never dream of shopping in Primark. If you can afford it you have a duty to shop ethically.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, and this is the approach I take.

I buy second hand when I can as it's better for the environment. My kids' uniforms, and 70% of their wardrobe are second hand.

I try to buy my clothes, if new, from ethical retailers or with lower impact choices.

I buy meat, milk and eggs that are higher welfare.

But I have the luxury of money to do this. This hasn't always been the case.

To the OPs point we have a large amount of disposable income. We don't buy new cars and are lean with Xmas gifts and tech, always turn lights off, 2nd jumper on before heating goes on, but I'm aware that we will splurge elsewhere. We don't tend to buy anything flashy or branded, it's your standard cliche really.

I pass on loads of second hand stuff myself. With coats I do try to think “who might actually need it”, but basically my priority is getting stuff gone!
I’ll give it to anyone who wants it and most people I know are the same.
I do give a lot to the charity shop, but it’s also nice to see someone getting use from it.
I could sell plenty of the things I give away/ give to charity, but I see it as an easy “goodish” deed - one that saves me time rather than taking time!

^^
That’s just re people accepting second hand stuff then going on holidays - I really don’t worry about that!

I don't see because I don't look. I can't tell you whether my friends jackets and boots were bought at Asda or Berghaus because I don't pay attention to their jacket.
I read this type of comment a lot on Mumsnet and I don't understand it. You seriously never notice your friend looking good or wouldn't see if they'd had their hair done or had bird poo on their coat.

I also never judge someone based in their house or cars because it's very deceiving. My friend who lives in the nicest house is far from the wealthiest of my friends.
Yet you can notice a 'nicer' house.

@Mountaingoat12

I may be frugal but I would never dream of shopping in Primark. If you can afford it you have a duty to shop ethically.

I agree with this. I have been shocked to see, for example, people who can afford free range eggs buy battery farmed ones instead.