AIBU- home birth social media support groups are f’ing dangeorus **Content warning - title edited by MNHQ**

[Namechangetimes100]

I’m in a few Fb home birth groups as I was planning to have one til the service got suspended, had an MLU birth instead and was absolutely fine! I’ve not left the group yet (probs should) but some of the advice given is fucking dangerous as hell.

The advice is free birth left right and centre. Birth at home for a pre term (35 week plus) baby, the woman did and the baby needed resus this was met with almost rapturous applause and more recently refuse induction or action for iugr. I mean ffs this advice can kill as well as the doctors = evil mentality.

I do totally believe and support informed consent and I do think that choice isn’t often presented to women in obstetrics and sometimes induction is made to seem like the only choice when it isn’t. I was coerced into induction with a ‘constitutionally small’ baby based on old guidelines so I’m sympathetic to a point to some of these opinions. But to even contemplate birthing a premature baby at home, fgs and a baby measuring under the 3rd centile and dropping and to refuse any sort of medical support in pursuit of the perfect home birth. I just don’t get it.

Any free birth or demanding midwives come out when there’s a national short staffing. It seems like a recipe for disaster.

I totally get my body my choice but seems like playing with fire In some instances to me-aibu?

A doula is a support person. They are not remotely qualified to offer any advice whatsoever when it comes to safe birthing practices. It’s always wise to think carefully about the advice of anyone who has many more opinions than they have responsibilities.

These groups exist because there’s a demand for them. You can’t make people use science to inform their decisions and you can’t make people make sensible decisions. The right to make choices includes the right to make downright stupid choices.

Fortunately most of the time it turns out ok, and most of the time when things go wrong the health system that was so derided by these women catches them before tragedy occurs and saves their life and the life of their baby. Rarely, the risks taken were too great and there is a tragedy. I don’t know how those women feel about their choices then; I assume they have some regret but perhaps they don’t.

I agree with the privilege thing. It's similar to the anti-vax movement. In the west we have no memory or lived experience of common diseases such as measles killing people or causing serious harm largely because of vaccinations. We also have a relatively very low maternal mortality rate because of modern obstetrics and access to anti-natal and perinatal care. But some have chosen to ignore or forget this and harp back to natural immunity and how women have been giving birth for millennia.
They chose not to read heartbreaking stories of women in less developed countries dying in childbirth because they don't have access to the care that we do, or kids dying of measles because they don't have access to affordable vaccinations.
We really don't know we're born do we?

I assume they have some regret but perhaps they don’t.

I regret my actions every day. I wanted to kill myself for the first year of my baby's life.
And whilst it was a stupid choice, we didn't know it was definitely a stupid choice at the time. We were trying to avoid the cascade of intervention that even the NCT groups warned of.
I'm not normally a stupid person who ignores science, but there's a lot of information out there and I was scared.
These things prey on vulnerable women and at the very least need to be regulated because to be quite frank, I didn't have my best thinking cap on after months of brainwashing and the fear of labour.

My baby died before I went in to labour at 41 weeks. I joined a support group afterwards- sands. There were people there who had lost babies at all stages- including one who’s baby had died during a home birth gone wrong. If she had had the baby at the hospital then the baby would have almost certainly survived. People can do what they want- but to pretend the risks aren’t there is crazy. It’s rare- but when it goes wrong it’s bad. Even if it’s only a tiny risk it’s one I wouldn’t take.

@SamanthaDoula

Hi Samantha, just wanted to say I'm in your group and had my baby last year and found your group a wonderful support. Thank you.

Totally agree OP. Just want to ask though, not being goady, but how do poster's know that there are loads of women with learning difficulties or social services involvement in these groups? I would have thought that wouldn't be something that people would post on Facebook, but then I don't have a Facebook account so maybe I am out of touch ...

@C8H10N4O2

You might consider reading the posts on this thread because this isn't an echo chamber like your groups. The views expressed here are no less valid, are they?

If I joined a group which stated as part of its remit that belief in the flying spaghetti monster was something I signed up to then I wouldn't join the group. Nor would I join it, thereby lying and the complain on a completely different forum that a random group elsewhere promotes belief in the flying spaghetti monster.

I might generate a lot of personally gratifying echoes and reaction from the other forum but it wouldn't get a damned thing changed.

If you believe a group is giving medically dangerous advice then the people to take it up with are the platform owners if its in contravention of their guidelines. Everything else you do is just noise.

there is a huge difference between accepting other people’s right to free birth and promulgating fucking dangerous advice.

Tbh I think if you’re home birthing (which I fully support, even when against medical advice on occasion ie for ‘older’ mums, a free birth course or prep on free birth is a stellar idea ‘just in case’ you labour super quickly or no one can get to you and you’re at the point of no return to getting into a hospital, it’s great to be prepared, seems unnecessarily dangerous to go into it planning on having no medical assistance on standby at least, especially if you’ve denied all medical care throughout pregnancy.

My friend has spoken and cried to me about it for many hours and I just have to sit biting my tongue. The birth was about her, not the baby. Of course I would be nothing but supportive.

I've cried to friends too and been convinced they are judging me even though they are kind.

I have to tell myself that whilst I made a bad decision, there is an element of luck that meant they had easy births and I had one where I had to make decisions.
Very easy to judge when you had the standard

Maternity care is shocking and that’s why homebirths are actually encouraged for healthy women. Childbirth isn’t actually a medical event. It can become that way, which is why help should be nearby. In reality it’s actually a really natural, intense event. A lot of what goes wrong and the pain is due to fear and hospital environment. Birth trauma js HUGE and completely unacceptable.

There is a middle ground here.

@FanciedChange

Totally agree OP. Just want to ask though, not being goady, but how do poster's know that there are loads of women with learning difficulties or social services involvement in these groups? I would have thought that wouldn't be something that people would post on Facebook, but then I don't have a Facebook account so maybe I am out of touch ...

Because the women freely share that information to the group themselves.

I totally agree.

I was very lucky and had a very wonderful homebirth in April. Easy low risk second pregnancy enabled this.

If there had been any worry, concern or risk of harm to me or my baby and potentially leaving my dd motherless it would not have happened.
But I was also part of these groups leading up to the birth and honestly some of the advice was absolutely horrific.
Homebirthing seemed more like a badge of honour to a lot of them even when the safety of the baby or mother is at risk. Even down to suspected preeclampsia and women advising the mother to refuse any further medical treatment or testing and free birth instead. Absolutely mind blowing.

I would never jeopardise my child's life just to say 'oh look at me, I gave birth at home with no drugs'.

@BiscuitLover3678

Maternity care is shocking and that’s why homebirths are actually encouraged for healthy women. Childbirth isn’t actually a medical event. It can become that way, which is why help should be nearby. In reality it’s actually a really natural, intense event. A lot of what goes wrong and the pain is due to fear and hospital environment. Birth trauma js HUGE and completely unacceptable.

There is a middle ground here.

Agree!!!

I don't understand women who freebirth or even home birth against medical advice. My waters broke but no labour started so I had to go in. The reassurance from knowing that someone was monitoring DS's heartbeat for infection and was ready with a big old scalpel made thing so much easier.

@Goldilocks99

I had some poor advice from a doula, after several weeks of having the natural method in hypnobirth course. I was scared of surgery and pain so clung to the hypnobirth natural way etc. Anyway, I delayed my induction by 48 hours. I got an infection. My baby has all the signs of cerebral palsy now. It makes me angry it's not regulated as if I had been under NHS care or doula I would likely have made a different decision.

Worst decision of my life. Trust the professionals. Wish I had.

I’m so so sorry. You must NOT blame yourself. Inductions have their own issues. You can never know which way it would have gone and you did why you thought was best for you and your baby.

@lemondrop21

I totally agree.

I was very lucky and had a very wonderful homebirth in April. Easy low risk second pregnancy enabled this.

If there had been any worry, concern or risk of harm to me or my baby and potentially leaving my dd motherless it would not have happened.
But I was also part of these groups leading up to the birth and honestly some of the advice was absolutely horrific.
Homebirthing seemed more like a badge of honour to a lot of them even when the safety of the baby or mother is at risk. Even down to suspected preeclampsia and women advising the mother to refuse any further medical treatment or testing and free birth instead. Absolutely mind blowing.

I would never jeopardise my child's life just to say 'oh look at me, I gave birth at home with no drugs'.

People I know who homebirth don’t expect some ‘badge’. There is research that shows that homebirth for a normal, healthy mother and baby is actually much better for both of them. People do it as they want the best for their baby. And usually hospital transfer happens the second there is even a hint of an issue.

@BiscuitLover3678 thank you, I am taking it each day as it comes.
As can be seen on this thread though, most people very ready to blame the mother for making the wrong decision in fear and ignorance.
I would obviously change my decision now I know the cost. But at the time I wanted a natural birth as the best thing for my baby and the 'success' stories of those that had delayed convinced me it would be fine. You don't think it will happen to you anyway.
Just wish they'd look at why these decisions are made rather than automatically judging. I've been informally diagnosed with add myself since the birth so that may be why I was easily led down a black and white path.

My body, my choice, does not include the baby's body as it has no choice in the matter. Personally anyone with a failing to thrive prem baby being denied medical help, needs reporting to social services. You are not at all unreasonable OP.

@BiscuitLover3678

I agree with you and that’s why I went for homebirth, ultimately. But it’s not safe for everyone!

Asd*

But the point being no one picked up how vulnerable I was in pregnancy. Looking back I had insane anxiety which could have been managed better. I actually did the hypnobirth course because I was trying to deal with the anxiety and control the situation.
I believe if someone from the NHS had provided the same service my baby would have a different path now.

Oh @Goldilocks99 I’m so sorry for what happened! It’s not your fault. You were given some really terrible advice and you did what you thought was best at that moment in time. That’s why I think groups/ individuals that post and routinely give out dangerous advice obscuring the risks are flipping dangerous and can lead some women down a path they might regret later.

As I said in a PP I’ve felt drawn to certain things especially when you’ve had a previous bad experience In the nhs, which unfortunately all too many have. I do also think there is no other medical field where patients are routinely treated so poorly as maternity/ obstetrics so I don’t blame you at all for being afraid. I’m just very sorry you were let down on all fronts

@BiscuitLover3678

Maternity care is shocking and that’s why homebirths are actually encouraged for healthy women. Childbirth isn’t actually a medical event. It can become that way, which is why help should be nearby. In reality it’s actually a really natural, intense event. A lot of what goes wrong and the pain is due to fear and hospital environment. Birth trauma js HUGE and completely unacceptable.

There is a middle ground here.

I think everyone agrees with that. But the issue here is encouraging women that accepting care and from midwifes / doctors is somehow wrong

It’s always wise to think carefully about the advice of anyone who has many more opinions than they have responsibilities.

@MissTrip82 I absolutely love this!

@Goldilocks99 I’m so sorry I can’t imagine how stressful that must be and how easy it would be to blame yourself. As you’ve said we all make decisions in life good and bad and often don’t know whether they were the right choice until it’s too late. There’s no telling whether there would have been issues with the induction or your baby could have had CP anyway.
Sending lots of love and well wishes to you and your beautiful baby.

I've been in a few home birth groups. I would like a home birth. I am still appalled by the content of these groups. Women do need support in childbirth, and sure some medical research is biased in terms of medical intervention mostly because that's what is being looked at... but the amount of judgement these women have given others who had to transfer is appalling. It's been eye-opening, as a first time mother, to explore how many of these groups exist.

I am appalled at the implication that people with mental health difficulties or other diagnoses are "easy prey" or lack capacity. I have a history of severe mental health issues which I'm fortunate to have been able to largely overcome, and I'm autistic. My decision to have a home birth is still backed by evidence... Which is why I've recently left the cult-like group a few of you have described. What a hurtful and judgemental comment.

@inheritancetrack

My body, my choice, does not include the baby's body as it has no choice in the matter. Personally anyone with a failing to thrive prem baby being denied medical help, needs reporting to social services. You are not at all unreasonable OP.

In your opinion. Legally, the baby has no rights before birth and social services would do fuck all. Are you anti reproductive choice too?