AIBU- home birth social media support groups are f’ing dangeorus **Content warning - title edited by MNHQ**

[Namechangetimes100]

I’m in a few Fb home birth groups as I was planning to have one til the service got suspended, had an MLU birth instead and was absolutely fine! I’ve not left the group yet (probs should) but some of the advice given is fucking dangerous as hell.

The advice is free birth left right and centre. Birth at home for a pre term (35 week plus) baby, the woman did and the baby needed resus this was met with almost rapturous applause and more recently refuse induction or action for iugr. I mean ffs this advice can kill as well as the doctors = evil mentality.

I do totally believe and support informed consent and I do think that choice isn’t often presented to women in obstetrics and sometimes induction is made to seem like the only choice when it isn’t. I was coerced into induction with a ‘constitutionally small’ baby based on old guidelines so I’m sympathetic to a point to some of these opinions. But to even contemplate birthing a premature baby at home, fgs and a baby measuring under the 3rd centile and dropping and to refuse any sort of medical support in pursuit of the perfect home birth. I just don’t get it.

Any free birth or demanding midwives come out when there’s a national short staffing. It seems like a recipe for disaster.

I totally get my body my choice but seems like playing with fire In some instances to me-aibu?

@Lifeisnteasy

It's worth remembering people can make up any horrible shit they like on the internet. I'd like to think if something like this had happened to a friend of mine, even if I judged her very harshly for it, I would refrain from sharing such unnecessary gory details in such a tabloid way on social media just to add salaciousness to my "freebirth is bad" point.

I'm quite comfortable with being at home for the majority and trying my luck at calling someone out last minute regardless

@sociallydistained so you would rather risk having no midwife at all than go into hospital?

Not sure what thus thread has turned into now but...

Women need a choice and a homebirth is the right and safest choice for low risk women. Those woman will need medical advice only risk. Those woman who have a HB will then have 1:1 care plus often a doula of their choice and eventually a second midwife. After care is relaxing and in their own home.

It's awful that this choice was in some trust was taken away by covid. I had 2 HB and one hospital. That's the issue and what then helps to stir the free birth ideology when it's hospital or nothing. Or hospital and a badly organised HB / not guaranteed etc.

Hospital and intervention isn't great unless you need it medically for you or your baby.

Midwife led units are great. Midwifes are underpaid stressed and in short supply. Very sad.

Free bithers won't listen and like facts. Ops groups turning to FB are dangerous and it's sad she saw the difference when HB stopped.

[quote Draineddraineddrained]@Lifeisnteasy

It's worth remembering people can make up any horrible shit they like on the internet. I'd like to think if something like this had happened to a friend of mine, even if I judged her very harshly for it, I would refrain from sharing such unnecessary gory details in such a tabloid way on social media just to add salaciousness to my "freebirth is bad" point.[/quote]
No if it’s true I think it’s a shocking but cautionary tale. Why shouldn’t people know the reality of when things go very wrong?

You don't think "the baby had died long before birth" wasn't horrible enough? They whole "black rotten baby" bit was totally necessary for cautionary purposes? Really?

@Draineddraineddrained

You don't think "the baby had died long before birth" wasn't horrible enough? They whole "black rotten baby" bit was totally necessary for cautionary purposes? Really?

Well, yes. Sometimes graphic imagery is needed to counteract the insta-perfect, inspirational quote nonsense.

@Draineddraineddrained

You don't think "the baby had died long before birth" wasn't horrible enough? They whole "black rotten baby" bit was totally necessary for cautionary purposes? Really?

As someone who has given birth to a stillborn at 22 weeks (around a week after baby died, they thought I'd go into labour naturally, but I didn't), I found that really hard to read. I refused to look at my baby as I did not want a horrible image to stay with me forever and now I have this one instead...

@Sesnania14

No I did not misrepresent Savita story. The 8th amend, had provisions for the life of the mother. White women in that same hospital had undergone D &C. She was literally neglected because she was Hindu and doctors chose to put fetus above her. They knew she has signs if infection and did not commence treat,and until it was too late. But again assuming you are right, more reason for women to stay away and suss out their own care online if even the law is againsg them.

Wow, this is a lie. It had nothing to do with her race. All abortion was prohibited in Ireland by the 8th Amendment. The doctors couldn't do anything because her baby still had a heartbeat.

I wonder how many of the other horror stories are also exaggerated and misinterpreted.

@BlueberryJam123

I wonder how many of the other horror stories are also exaggerated and misinterpreted.

There seems to be a lot of posts about being ‘coerced’ into medical procedures such as inductions. What does this actually mean though? In many cases it seems to be the doctors simply told the woman something she didn’t want to hear. Which they have to do in order for the woman to make an ‘informed decision’.

My third a planned homebirth [...] could of easily become a unattended/paramedic homebirth because I was not stepping foot in a hospital without the 100% promise of a 2-4hour discharge straight from delivery room and not being put on ward unless something actually went wrong. I was more than happy to take my chances with paramedics if it meant not being stuck on ward.

Well, at least you know your priorities

I avoided all pregnancy groups. Even on the birth group on mn for the month due there were comments about how your body knows what to do and your body wouldn’t have a baby that’s too big etc etc. It’s just irritating and I don’t know how they can be so ignorant.

@Diggersaursarethebest

Not always it doesn’t. And when they walk away and leave you unable to move and unable to call for help… then the trade off is a brain damaged baby who dies 5 months later. *@TheOriginalEmu* Did this happen to you? If that’s the case I’m so sorry that you went through this. It sounds like totally inadequate care by the midwives or doctors in this case. I hope you complained. They should have put the emergency alarm within reach before leaving a women in labour with an epidural in place alone in a room. And my understanding is that they should be watching the baby’s heart rate via the monitor too.

It did. And I did. And there was an investigation and a settlement and an admission of error abs all that…and I know for a fact that due to staffing pressures women are still left alone for huge chunks of time.

But the point is, the idea that being in a hospital makes you safe, is just not true.

@Draineddraineddrained

You don't think "the baby had died long before birth" wasn't horrible enough? They whole "black rotten baby" bit was totally necessary for cautionary purposes? Really?

It was graphic yes but no more so than the PP who listed 5 cases of obstetric violence to illustrate her point that a hospital environment =adverse outcomes ‘point’

[quote sjxoxo]@Sesnania14 Tragic as those stories are, from a statistical point of view this is not a good strategy for rational decision making. When making informed choices about maternity care and any medical treatment, the overall statistics are very important- these cases are not typical (in a western healthcare setting like the NHS) and shouldn’t be interpreted as such. Some women have negative experiences; but this isn’t the norm & part of making rational choices is reducing you own risk, through informed decision making. That involves mass studies & statistics, not looking at a few very extreme examples out of millions. I think this is the op’s point- if you encourage women to make decisions in this way it is essentially spreading misinformation & it puts people at risk. x[/quote]
But for many of the women on free birth/home birth groups they are the reason they don’t want to be in hospitals. After my son died and I nearly did I went and researched ways I could have my next baby at home and many free birth mums are the same. Ultimately I had 3 home births with very minimal input from midwives and that was fine for me. But had anyone tried to push me into a hospital birth id have rather been alone.

Agreed. I was contemplating not going to hospital with my last labour. I mean it would have been quick but I was dehydrated and heart rate was awful on the trace. Had a bag of fluids and went into full blown labour. I had been drinking loads all day but it must have been coming out of me quicker. Baby was in distress by the time I pushed again, but he did come out safely. Who knows what would have happened if I hadn't had the IV fluids. Almost like my body knew it wasn't safe to go into labour yet, I'm sure without medical intervention I couldn't have carried on like that forever.

If I ever had any more I would love a home birth. No way would I feel comfortable planning to give birth on my own. Whole other level of gaga.

I do feel it is a woman's right to choose regardless of risk if it's really what she thinks is best; although I would never advocate for it to be unnasisted completely. Someone needs to at least know what is going on.

I could tell many stories about how woefully inadequate the care was in hospital for both my births, but the fact remains that if I hadn’t been in hospital with monitoring, immediate availability of a crash team I would likely have lost one or both of them. The experience was rubbish but I have two healthy children - I will take that.

Goodness I'm glad I'm not pregnant reading some of these horrific comments... wholly unnecessary.

I joined a few facebook homebirth groups after my midwife recommended that a homebirth was the safest option for my second baby after a traumatic first hospital birth.
I found them a really good source of support, some very useful information, lots of birth stories that helped me understand what to expect. There was also some questionable advice and some downright reckless (imo) freebirth encouragement. Also a repeated assertion to "stick to your guns, refuse to go in, and they WILL send a midwife out to you".
But having gone through a hospital birth involving poor care, I can completely understand why some women feel like it's the last place they would feel safe to have another baby. It's a tragedy that maternity care isn't better funded, less overstretched and more patient-centred. I'm lucky that my area has a dedicated homebirth midwife team and their outcomes are excellent, but I don't think this is yet available in all areas. Obviously it's a very emotive topic but we all want the same thing which is better care for pregnant, labouring and postnatal women.

@DollyDingleberry OMG exact same situation - but they would never acknowledge it was PCOS related with me. Reading this actually makes me feel better!

30% is way too high. You seem to be really dismissing these issues. Women are not obligated to listen to or follow medical advice. Does that upset you?

Free Birth is a dangerous movement I agree, and it needs to be seperated from Home Birth with a midwife in attendance. Many women who are low risk actually benefit from home birth. And I agree it should be more widely available.

Unfortunately people will always spout unsafe advice on the internet. I mean you only need to look on here regarding "should I go to A and E with chest pain" and people say "nah pop a paracetamol and wait for morning" 🤦🏻‍♀️

My birth experience was not great. I honestly left the first hospital, I was in early labour and drove myself 40minutes to the next hospital, I also may or may not have started a mutiny at the first hospital leaving a whole ward of women screaming and shouting about how unhappy they were 😳

I wasn't the only woman to leave that night and head over to the next hospital having forcibly removed their maternity notes from a midwife's clutches.

No Ireland dies perform D and C during the era of the 8th amendment for miscarriges. She was treated differently and it absolutely had to do with racism among other things

I had a textbook birth with DC1 and would have been an ideal case for a home birth the second time around, but the placenta didn’t come away properly and I haemorrhaged. As I was in hospital the midwife was able to press the emergency button and within seconds the room was full of people who sorted me out. God knows what might have happened had I given birth at home. My carpets would have been ruined for a start!

On a more serious note, friend of a friend had a home birth, baby had an infection that was missed and died 😢

Much better to have a safe birth in hospital with the best care available rather than having some hippy experience which is all about the mum, not the baby.

Well I had a great experience in hospital - in that we both came home alive and were treated with respect. Some of it was traumatising but not because of the medics. It became medicalised because it had to be and it wasn’t totally individualised because it couldn’t/can’t be.

I had a monitor and never felt I had been ‘strapped to the bed’ and would never even consider using that language. ‘Wireless’ monitors sound great but can you hear yourself out loud, some serious first world privilege on this thread, ‘If it gets bad I’ll just call an ambulance and go to a hospital”, but anything a medic may do to prevent needing that situation is an ‘over-intervention’.

Services are woefully underfunded I agree but it does not mean they are riskier.