To think women are often oppressed through the label of Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (also known as BPD)

[UndertheCedartree]

I made a post recently asking a question which was answered by many posters and the thread gave me the help I needed. However, many posters cited that no one could help me and even did Advanced searches and from that claimed I couldn't be helped because of my mental illness. It was said noone could understand my post if they didn't know this although it was irrelevant to my question and this was proved by all those who helped without knowing that. This is not a TAAT - it is about the general ableism shown to those with EUPD who are mainly women.

The name of the mental illness itself causes people to think there is a problem with our moral character or our personality but that is not the case. EUPD is an illness of mood and how one interacts with others.

Women with EUPD are often described as manipulative. However, this is not one of the symptoms of EUPD. Sometimes a woman described as manipulative is simply trying to seek the attention they require.

Women with EUPD are often described as abusive. However, the truth is most women with EUPD have suffered trauma often as a result of all types of abuse. Of course anyone can be abusive but it is not a symptom of EUPD. Most of us are more at risk of being abused ourselves.

Women with EUPD are often called 'drama queens'. It is often this invalidating environment in childhood along with trauma and differences in the brain which leads to EUPD.

People think it can't be cured. It can, although most aren't cured but some learn to live with the illness. The Gold standard treatment is DBT. Most women are not able to access this.

[quote UndertheCedartree]@IJoinedJustForThisThread - I have EUPD and also autism. So it is possible to have both. Has your EUPD diagnosis helped you? Have you been able to access support/therapy?

This was how my psychiatrist explained it to me - the point of getting a diagnosis is so that diagnosis can be used to access suitable support.[/quote]
The diagnosis hasn’t made a difference TBH - I was diagnosed with bipolar 20 years ago and I have had lots of psychotherapy (group and one to one) and other talking therapies because of that. Hasn’t made a massive difference. Therapists have told me that CBT won’t work on me as it’s best for recent issues whereas my issues go back 30/40 years.

My main issue with the BPD is the extreme emotional reaction I get to seemingly trivial things and how embarrassingly easy/often I cry. I have my annual review with my manager coming up and I know it’ll be just like every other review, with me in floods of tears, even if the manager were to say something nice to me. I’m middle aged with a professional career and crying at work is embarrassing and unprofessional.

I've always understood it to be complex /developmental trauma. (Not c-PTSD because trauma isn't a disorder either, it's an injury). And DBT can also be helpful in treating that.

So YADNBU.

I'm fed up of women’s lives being pathologised in ways that hold them responsible. How much more twisted gaslighting can we find than that!

@ancientgran

I used to work with someone with BPD but he was a man. He was really lovely but then would go off his meds and do very bizarre things. He also got into lots of debt when he was off his meds. I don't know if he had suffered abuse. Is it different in women?

Was that definitely 'Borderline Personality Disorder' and not Bipolar? It's just that doing bizarre things (e.g. when manic) and getting into lots of debt is more common in Bipolar disorder.

@Flowersandhearts I also wondered about Bipolar

@IJoinedJustForThisThread what you describe, crying at performance review, is so familiar to me. Have you never been offered DBT? It is the clinically proven treatment for BPD/EUPD and makes a real difference in how you manage in situations like the one you describe. The skills you learn include "emotional regulation" and "distress tolerance", I never would have thought it could make such a difference but it really can. I don't think there's an age limit or statute of limitations on past trauma- you're not really talking about your past trauma in DBT it's more how you go about your every day life.

CBT is different to DBT.

I think it's such a hard condition to work with, so is misunderstood.
In my line with work, I have maybe 5-7 women per week to deal with who have an EUPD/BPD diagnosis. I have had no training whatsoever on how to effectively manage people presenting who have these disorders.

As a result it can be incredibly frustrating because usually their behaviours will result in me having to refuse help or reduce services, even if I do want to help them.

For example one of my ladies;
Makes up terrible lies about men, that are easily disproved - this means joint visits only with female staff, which is much harder to organise.

Is verbally abusive, screams etc which results in phonecalls being ended / meetings cut short without her being properly helped

Moves frequently- changing addresses means she ends up bouncing between social workers in different local authorities. Often her case is closed and not transferred to the new local authority.

She is brilliant, very very clever and I think of she were born into a different life she would have been the ceo of some huge corporation, or a barrister.
I do everything I can to keep her cases open to me and tody up after her, but tbh it is very hard and I know my managers would not be happy about it.

[quote UndertheCedartree]@XenoBitch - I'm interested to see you've done DBT. Did you do it as an inpatient?[/quote]
No, it was a group in the community. Although, the times I was inpatient, I was still able to attend the group (was on the same site as the ward).
It was weekly for about 11 months, with 1:1 sessions alongside. It was ran by two clinical psychologists.

Just to be clear I myself have some EUPD traits I can fly off the handle and get very emotional. So I do have empathy. However I think the professional aspect is different. MH Services are cut to the bone and EUPD often requires a lot more intensive treatment with slower treatment/recovery time than some of the other psychiatric conditions.

For instance my speciality is more ASD and organic disorders primarily with men , medium secure , low and locked rehab we have more staff and time to do more therapeutic activities with the patients than I have ever been able to do on a PD specialist unit.

I agree OP- wouldn't it be better if people with BPD/EUPD, with a history of trauma were instead diagnosed with Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder?

I'm a Community Mental Health Nurse. I totally agree with the above, EUPD is often the result of complex trauma in childhood and I think changing the diagnosis to C-PTSD would definitely reduce the stigma.

It doesnt matter what you call an illness really,or what label you put on.If you have been diagnosed with the illness,you have to take responsibility as best as you can.My abusive partner with BPD new he was suffering from it,but refused to acknowledge it in the relationship.he instead blamed me for all his horrid,vile actions against me.this goes for all severe mental health illnesses.if you suffer from Depression,Bipolar,Schizophrenia,BPD, you owe it to a partner to tell about your illness.The partner can then decide,if he/she will be able to cope/deal with it.this is not because we as partners are judging,it is because we are humans with feelings too and it is not on to just be a punchbag.

@IJoinedJustForThisThread - oh bless you, that is really tough. Are you on any medication? As for me that is what made a massive difference to that kind of thing. But I can relate so much and it is horrible. I think you would find DBT really useful.

@Lollyfalalalalalalalalaaahhhhh

I think it's such a hard condition to work with, so is misunderstood. In my line with work, I have maybe 5-7 women per week to deal with who have an EUPD/BPD diagnosis. I have had no training whatsoever on how to effectively manage people presenting who have these disorders.

As a result it can be incredibly frustrating because usually their behaviours will result in me having to refuse help or reduce services, even if I do want to help them.

For example one of my ladies;
Makes up terrible lies about men, that are easily disproved - this means joint visits only with female staff, which is much harder to organise.

Is verbally abusive, screams etc which results in phonecalls being ended / meetings cut short without her being properly helped

Moves frequently- changing addresses means she ends up bouncing between social workers in different local authorities. Often her case is closed and not transferred to the new local authority.

She is brilliant, very very clever and I think of she were born into a different life she would have been the ceo of some huge corporation, or a barrister.
I do everything I can to keep her cases open to me and tody up after her, but tbh it is very hard and I know my managers would not be happy about it.

That sounds so tough. But again, this is the problem that you have no training in EUPD. If you don't know what you are doing it can just make things worse for the women. I have been abused by men so I strongly dislike strange men coming into my house. When I was under Crisis team I requested no men but they still sent men even 2 men with no woman. Maybe the first lady was in the same position and making up lies about the men was the only way to stop strange men coming into her home. I also have screamed and cried in meetings as I often feel so unheard. They act as if they know my DC better than me and say things about them aren't true etc.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure you are doing your best but I think it is tough on both sides. Especially when you have no training - it is not fair on you or the women.

@XenoBitch - ah, that sounds good.

@Thatldo

It doesnt matter what you call an illness really,or what label you put on.If you have been diagnosed with the illness,you have to take responsibility as best as you can.My abusive partner with BPD new he was suffering from it,but refused to acknowledge it in the relationship.he instead blamed me for all his horrid,vile actions against me.this goes for all severe mental health illnesses.if you suffer from Depression,Bipolar,Schizophrenia,BPD, you owe it to a partner to tell about your illness.The partner can then decide,if he/she will be able to cope/deal with it.this is not because we as partners are judging,it is because we are humans with feelings too and it is not on to just be a punchbag.

You are absolutely right noone should be a punchbag for someone else. And I'm so sorry you went through it. Everyone with a mental illness diagnosis or none must take responsibility for their actions. And yes, I agree they should be honest with their partner about their diagnosis. How are you doing now?

Oh yes, I know there is a cure, or at least there are therapies that allow people with the diagnosis to live happy, fulfilled lives (not quite the same imo as the person may still urgently need help if an outside factor in their life then goes awry- relationship breakdown for eg). But as the cure is a lot of high quality therapy which may be needed more than once in a lifetime, it's easier for HCPs to claim there is no useful cure and push pills instead.

My daughter has this diagnosis and has been fortunate enough to get this level of help- pure chance as she came to the attention of the right professionals at the right time and at an age our authority prioritises for mental healthcare (18-25). It has taken 7 or 8 years to put her in a position to be potentially able to work and study, though if she had only had the 'good' therapy over a sustained period it would probably have been about 3. There were long intervals of occupational therapy type courses which helped a little in keeping her busy but not actually of any long term use.

Her therapists generally agreed that c-ptsd was at least as likely as eupd, but once she had the diagnosis (after one session with a psychiatrist or psychologist, I forget which) that was that.