To think women are often oppressed through the label of Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (also known as BPD)

[UndertheCedartree]

I made a post recently asking a question which was answered by many posters and the thread gave me the help I needed. However, many posters cited that no one could help me and even did Advanced searches and from that claimed I couldn't be helped because of my mental illness. It was said noone could understand my post if they didn't know this although it was irrelevant to my question and this was proved by all those who helped without knowing that. This is not a TAAT - it is about the general ableism shown to those with EUPD who are mainly women.

The name of the mental illness itself causes people to think there is a problem with our moral character or our personality but that is not the case. EUPD is an illness of mood and how one interacts with others.

Women with EUPD are often described as manipulative. However, this is not one of the symptoms of EUPD. Sometimes a woman described as manipulative is simply trying to seek the attention they require.

Women with EUPD are often described as abusive. However, the truth is most women with EUPD have suffered trauma often as a result of all types of abuse. Of course anyone can be abusive but it is not a symptom of EUPD. Most of us are more at risk of being abused ourselves.

Women with EUPD are often called 'drama queens'. It is often this invalidating environment in childhood along with trauma and differences in the brain which leads to EUPD.

People think it can't be cured. It can, although most aren't cured but some learn to live with the illness. The Gold standard treatment is DBT. Most women are not able to access this.

@Skyechasemarshalontheway

There has in the last couple of years more information coming out about misdiagnosis with eupd/bpd and that sometimes people have autism or adhd to.

The full thing needs relooked at and anyone who needs help with anything need to be able to access that help when needed. Not ignored because of a diagnosis and thought of as less which sadly does happen.

Yes, I think ASD and ADHD should be looked at too. There is a lot of crossover. I have ASD too. I don't believe I have been misdiagnosed with EUPD as I clearly have symptoms of EUPD that are not also symptoms of ADHD/ASD.

Women should be given much better care for EUPD. And staff should be trained much better. The amount of people I know with EUPD who have been brought into A&E and treated as if they were a nuisance. Often then an attempt on their life happens after that which some do not survive.

Does BPD cause emotional outburts and an inability to control what you are doing or saying?

@Glisil

I agree. I have it, and I never tell anyone as I can’t deal with how differently people treat me once they know. And they would never guess I had it. I’m not “cured” but I successfully hold down a professional job and try very hard to manage my life in a way in which I avoid situations which are likely to set me off. Cutting out toxic relationships is a big part of that, as they were my worst triggers for emotional breakdowns. Also, living as healthy lifestyle as possible helps keep me stable.

That's brilliant. I held down a professional job for many years too, until I had a breakdown. Agree also about relationships and a healthy lifestyle. This is all covered in DBT.

I was diagnosed as a teen but the doctor at the time totally ignored that my down moods coincided with my period. When I tried to tell him he got annoyed and asked my mum why I hadn’t taught her that girls shouldn’t talk about certain things . Twenty years later it was discovered that I had thyroid issues and pcos and that they were causing such heavy periods and all of my symptoms. As soon as I obtained treatment I became well.

@Sunset999

Does BPD cause emotional outburts and an inability to control what you are doing or saying?

Yes it can do. The emotions when you’re triggered are overwhelming and you enter a heightened state of terror and desperation in which you can act irrationally and say things you wouldn’t when you’re in a “normal” state

So what can be done to help this, or prevent this?

I am confused as BPD stands for boarderline personality disorder.

Is it like split personality?

@SuspiciousHumanoid

Yes, many women are inappropriately diagnosed with BPD because the NHS does not have a framework to offer them the right kind of support, which would most often be good trauma informed therapy. Just like any other group of people, I’ve met people with a BPD diagnosis who are lovely, and some, one in particular, who is absolutely vile, but that’s because she’s a vile person, not because she has a diagnosis of BPD.

Thank you for saying that, it really means a lot.

Very interested in this

I posted a thread about my Dd, 15, who is being assessed for ADHD and autism. So many posters suggested BPD/EUPD - even when I said her psychiatrist had suggested an autism assessment.

The borderline is the type of personality disorder. And a personality disorder means it was ingrained on you as a child even if not diagnosed till a adult. So I already had aniexty, self doubt, and a eatting disorders which is semi classed as self harm as a child. You don't have to of experienced a trumatic period of time but approx of 80%of people with BPD do.

I must admit that I have found people with EUPD can be extremely difficult to deal with and - when trying to get their needs met- take no prisoners. So manipulation, outbursts, abuse - whatever it takes to get the engagement they need. Yes they are often the most damaged by their own behaviour but there can be plenty of collateral damage all round.

Maybe I've only met people with uncontrolled /untreated EUPD (and of course, if the condition is under control then you wouldnt even necessarily know that the person had it, skewing your perception of the condition). But I dont buy the disconnect between the condition and the challenging behaviour that you seem to be suggesting. Ime the behaviour was implicitly linked to the condition because it was all around fear of rejection.

@Freecuthbert

YANBU. I worked in mental health and all the women I supported with BPD had experienced awful trauma and had perfectly natural reactions reactions to said trauma, then labelled as BPD or similar and failed by the system. Once trauma is pathologised it can be used to discredit, i.e. rape or DV victim perceived as lying, crazy, manipulative, delusional etc, then can't secure conviction. But often suitable therapy and other support is locked behind a diagnosis, so you often need to get a MH diagnosis to get some level of support. So damned if you do damned if you don't.

It is such a complicated area. If you are born with changes to your brain that affect how you deal with your emotions and then are invalidated as you grow I can imagine it being a bit of a vicious circle. It is so good that the importance of validation is known more now. If you add in trauma it is a recipe for EUPD.

@Sunset999

Is it like split personality?

No it is not that, atall. It is nothing to do with personality.

It is caused by differences in the brain (amygdala and pre frontal cortex), growing up in an invalidating environment and trauma.

There are 9 symptoms:
A fear of abandonment
Unstable/intense relationships
Unclear or shifting self image
Impulsive and self destructive behaviours
Self harm and/or suicidal behaviour
Extreme mood swings
Chronic feelings of emptiness
Explosive anger
Paranoia/psychosis/disassociation

You have to have a least 5 to be diagnosed.

@eloquent

It's very true YANBU. Also, I would suggest any woman diagnosed with eupd/bpd push for autistic assesment, as autistic women are often misdiagnosed with eupd/bpd.

And also C-PTSD if there is trauma in the past. Very similar symptoms and can't just be brushed off with 'no cure' nonsense.

Hopefully it will be realised how damaging this diagnosis is and it will become defunct at some point. It should never be acceptable to diagnose someone with a condition only to tell them they can't be helped.

@Glisil

And I can’t drink alcohol anymore as it makes me suicidal. Cutting out alcohol really helped.

I can drink one glass of wine or equivalent but yes, any more I find it has a depressive effect.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Women's reaction to trauma isn't well-understood or well-treated wholesale. Women are supposed to be 'proper' victims, demure, scared, trembling flowers. If they deviate into being angry, loud, manipulative (because it's a source of power), passive aggressive (ditto) or difficult it's treated very harshly.

A man punching a wall is treated with more understanding than a woman shouting IME.

That really is so true.

@Comtesse

I don’t know much about it - I’ve learnt a few things from just reading this thread. Thank for starting this - it’s helped me understand more

I'm glad

@Flowersandhearts

I agree OP- wouldn't it be better if people with BPD/EUPD, with a history of trauma were instead diagnosed with Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder?

People with BPD/EUPD without a history of trauma are more likely to have misdiagnosed ASD or ADHD, as there is some overlap.

I don't have EUPD but I'm sure that I could be diagnosed with it under the care of the wrong Psychiatrist. I have ADHD and since early childhood have had great difficulty controlling my emotions. I had some trauma (non-abusive) in childhood, which added to my emotion lability but it is mostly caused by difficulties with my executive functions caused by ADHD.

I struggle with life because of my ADHD (and severe OCD) but have received a lot of Psychological support and would hate to be diagnosed with EUPD and then told that I was too complex to treat (as it the case for many BPD/EUPD sufferers).

Have you tried DBT at all? I've no experience of it - is it useful?

There is a lot of overlap. For me personally the symptoms of EUPD fit, but I do have ASD too.

I was lucky enough to complete 2 cycles of DBT in a specialist inpatient unit. It meant I got proper DBT. You have a group run by psychologists once a week where you learn skills, then once a week you see your psychologist for 1:1 therapy. During the week you have homework and there are trained staff that can help you with that and issues that come up over the day. It has helped me a lot.

My psychologist feels I am now ready to complete Trauma therapy in the community. Unfortunately, I have been waiting a year and a half for that.

@ChateauMargaux

My mother is diagnosed with BPD previously diagnosed with Manic Depression. She suffered childhood trauma and every single professional only offered medication as a solution. Many of her medications have interactions with each other which are poorly documented. These cause physical symptoms which required more medication. She has recently been in hospital for 4 months and without consultation with her psychiatrist, was taken off her ‘mood stabilizer’ and she is more stable that I have known her in 20 years. Many times, she has tried to stop her medication as she doesn’t like how she is in them and the only answer is to go back on them but it is only when she is off them she can really speak her mind. Yes she is angry when she does ... but she has every right to be... she has spent her entire life being silenced. She wants someone to take action, to tell her she is believed and to help her to heal or at least to learn to live with it but the only answer is to go back on the medication, get stable and then see how she feels.. so she does, goes back... she is stable.. so nothing more is done.

She is not perfect but I have very little respect for the psychiatrists that have treated her.

That is so sad. With EUPD medication can be used to help to stabalise someone so that they can manage therapy. Medication can treat symptoms but not cure EUPD. At the unit I was at the psychologists were quite anti-medication as they wanted us to learn skills to help so we didn't need to rely on medication. If we were struggling we were always offered an ice pack first and also had a box with things like stress toys and toxic waste sweets. When I first went there the psychiatrist said they would try to reduce our meds before we were discharged. I can't deny that the medication has helped me enormously. Unfortunately, due to Covid my discharge wasn't handled as well as it could be and I am still on a lot of meds. I'm in a situation where the community team won't look at my meds until I am assessed physically. But that hasn't happened because of Covid.

@Sunset999

I have someone close to me who has BPD, Id never heard of it until recently, I honestly thought she was being a drama queen and making it up......

Calling her a 'drama queen' is one of the most harmful things you could say to her.

@StationaryMagpie

i've spent the last 25 tears being mis-diagnosed with all kinds of shitty MH/personality disorders.. someone has finally referred me for ADHD diagnosis. :/

I do have c-ptsd from an abusive marriage, but women get dismissed and incorrectly diagnosed SO much.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope the ADHD diagnosis will help you deal with your struggles.

@supercritter

Jessica Taylor's work might interest www.littlebrown.co.uk/titles/dr-jessica-taylor/sexy-but-psycho/9781472135490/

Thank you