To think women are often oppressed through the label of Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (also known as BPD)

[UndertheCedartree]

I made a post recently asking a question which was answered by many posters and the thread gave me the help I needed. However, many posters cited that no one could help me and even did Advanced searches and from that claimed I couldn't be helped because of my mental illness. It was said noone could understand my post if they didn't know this although it was irrelevant to my question and this was proved by all those who helped without knowing that. This is not a TAAT - it is about the general ableism shown to those with EUPD who are mainly women.

The name of the mental illness itself causes people to think there is a problem with our moral character or our personality but that is not the case. EUPD is an illness of mood and how one interacts with others.

Women with EUPD are often described as manipulative. However, this is not one of the symptoms of EUPD. Sometimes a woman described as manipulative is simply trying to seek the attention they require.

Women with EUPD are often described as abusive. However, the truth is most women with EUPD have suffered trauma often as a result of all types of abuse. Of course anyone can be abusive but it is not a symptom of EUPD. Most of us are more at risk of being abused ourselves.

Women with EUPD are often called 'drama queens'. It is often this invalidating environment in childhood along with trauma and differences in the brain which leads to EUPD.

People think it can't be cured. It can, although most aren't cured but some learn to live with the illness. The Gold standard treatment is DBT. Most women are not able to access this.

The new ICD11 will have complex PTSD as a diagnosis which includes emotional dysregulation.

Medication may be more likely to be used due to huge waiting lists for appropriate psychological support and lack of NHS DBT therapists and CPNs to support appropriate therapy.

I think also we do a disservice to people to make them think a medication will magically make them feel better.

Agree ADHD and autism also present with emotional dysregulation- but again - really long waiting times for diagnosis meaning patients treated with medication rather than understanding wider context.

I have someone close to me who has BPD, Id never heard of it until recently, I honestly thought she was being a drama queen and making it up......

i've spent the last 25 tears being mis-diagnosed with all kinds of shitty MH/personality disorders.. someone has finally referred me for ADHD diagnosis. :/

I do have c-ptsd from an abusive marriage, but women get dismissed and incorrectly diagnosed SO much.

Jessica Taylor's work might interest www.littlebrown.co.uk/titles/dr-jessica-taylor/sexy-but-psycho/9781472135490/

I absolutely commend you on this post.

I also note that yet again amongst some helpful comments are some very ignorant ones.

The trend now in psychodynamic therapy is not to focus on a diagnosis, and this partly due to the issues you raise.

It's a very broad spectrum. The diagnostic criteria are inaccurate and behaviourally bases rather than emotion based (which given the condition is very unhelpful).

I advise anyone with all but the most severe BPD not to ever publicise their diagnosis....because people will suddenly stop responding to you as a human. As EUPD stems from not having needs and validity acknowledged, the impact of this is even more devastating.

At the same time, if more people who suffer from issues of trauma, neglect and attachment could share this, attitudes would change.

I don't know what the answer this, but it is a thread I will watch with interest.

@ChateauMargaux has your Mum ever had access to long term therapy? She seems very clear on what she needs and I wonder if a stable therapeutic environment might help her more than/alongside medication.

@Enb76

Dr Jessica Taylor has written a book on this - coming out in March 'Sexy But Psycho'

Lifted from the blurb
'Utilising decades of research, real case studies and new data from her own work, Dr Taylor's book will critically analyse the way we label women with personality disorders. Why are women and girls pathologized for being angry about oppression and abuse? How have so many women been duped into believing that they are mentally ill, for having normal and natural reactions to their experiences? Sexy But Psycho argues that there is a specific purpose to convincing women and girls that they are mentally ill, as the world avoids addressing violence against women and their centuries of ignored trauma.'

I was about to recommend Dr Jessica Taylor too, she speaks out about this a lot.

Do your follow her Facebook page?

www.facebook.com/jessicaforenpsych

I used to work with someone with BPD but he was a man. He was really lovely but then would go off his meds and do very bizarre things. He also got into lots of debt when he was off his meds. I don't know if he had suffered abuse. Is it different in women?

I thought ptsd just related to ex army? see I am so uninformed?

@ancientgran

I used to work with someone with BPD but he was a man. He was really lovely but then would go off his meds and do very bizarre things. He also got into lots of debt when he was off his meds. I don't know if he had suffered abuse. Is it different in women?

Just to clarify he was lovely when he was on or off his meds, just that some of his behaviour was strange/dangerous when he was off his meds and seemed very vulnerable.

What an interesting thread, thank you OP. I have some knowledge of attachment disorders, and CPTSD, and an awareness that girls with attachment disorders often get the BPD or EUPD diagnosis later.

There may also be a cross over with FAS, too. A trauma history does seem to lead to various diagnoses in adulthood, that could quite simply be understood as trauma responses.

@Sunset999

I thought ptsd just related to ex army? see I am so uninformed?

PTSD can relate to any kind of trauma.

Prostitutes, for example, are more likely to suffer from PTSD from their "work" than soldiers are.

I have BPD and totally get why as was bullied from pre school about a birth mark on my face so it makes a lot of sense. But hate the way I get sterotyped as manipulative when many people are and probably why I did so well in sales support when was working. The mental health teams I've encountered mainly have so many misconceptions about it to the point I've been told I don't have a mental illness I'm just a social construct. When it you broke the symptoms down I would have anixety, Depression, PTSD, eatting disorder, previous addiction problems. they get classed as a mental illness. And really upset with the to mental health services that just seem to write me off. Recently got diagnosed with general anxiety disorder because I'm not coping with being of work with no mental health treatment, then further phsyical disabilities. No one even contacted my GP or keyworker to investigate why I was being dismissed over my physical problems. Can't help it was part of been labelled a attention seeker through BPD......now I'm pregnant been referred to the pregnancy mental health team so fingers crossed this team will at least start treatment for my OCD and can start felling like I have a future beyond diagnosis.....what really get me wound up is other women with anixety and depression use it to gain public familialarity for their blog, social media. Tell everyone help is out there if only you want it but have never been near the CMHT and don't get regected by affordable counseling/therapy as classed as high risk through the BPD label.

I have a very different experience. I have been diagnosed with BPD/EUPD and honestly since my diagnosis my life and past has made so much more sense to me, and allowed me to thrive.

I have mixed feelings on the existence of BPD as a disorder –I don't doubt that it may have come about as a result of medical misogyny and misunderstanding of trauma. I believe it is wrongly given to some women with complex trauma whose behaviour is a reaction to that. But outside of the ethics of it, I do believe that for some people it is a helpful framework to understand why they feel like they do, and start taking steps to overcome the unhealthy behaviours that come with it.

Being diagnosed for me led to me being prescribed a medication – on top of my antidepressants – that made a huge positive difference to my life, and allowed me to feel stable and not have massive responses to my triggers in the first time in my whole life. It's possible I could've got to this point with a different diagnosis but I don't know as that's not what happened.

I'm afraid to say that for me personally, I do believe that it sometimes manifested with manipulative and abusive behaviour in romantic relationships. This was almost always in response to being treated badly (I was very drawn to people with mental health issues of their own, which usually made for toxic relationships) but I have done things in the past which I personally have no issue in calling abusive, such as threatening to hurt myself if someone dumped me, punching someone in the face during an argument, bombarding someone with endless verbally abusive messages when they'd asked me to leave them alone. Now, I'm not absolving the other people here of any wrongdoing – like I said, this was always as a result of being treated poorly. Since I've been on the new meds I have not had any urges to behave like this, and I feel much stronger in myself to recognise red flags from someone else and walk away before things get anywhere near that stage.

I'm very open about my diagnosis and I've honestly never received any negativity about it. I've had people message me to thank me for being open about it. I haven't lost any friends, I haven't been judged or wrongly ascribed behaviours by my therapist –if anything she's the opposite and encourages me not to be so hard on myself or label myself if I'm reacting to a negative stimulus.

So while I don't doubt it is a problematic disorder, for me it actually gave me a vital understanding of my behaviour. It is a result of trauma, and having psychodynamic therapy to explore the roots of it and the effect of childhood trauma has also been vital for me, but the BPD diagnosis gave me a framework in which to identify my triggers and start resetting my thought patterns so I have to say for me, the diagnosis has overall been a positive thing.

@eloquent

It's very true YANBU. Also, I would suggest any woman diagnosed with eupd/bpd push for autistic assesment, as autistic women are often misdiagnosed with eupd/bpd.

I actually have ASD too. There is a lot of cross over. I think misdiagnosis could definitely happen. I also this DBT could be used to help those with ASD.

YADNBU OP

In my opinion, diagnosis of complex post traumatic stress disorder 8s more appropriate in many cases.

And YES to the poster who mentioned it's not acceptable for women to get shouty or assertive.

Another Dr Jessica Taylor fan here - recommend her book "Why women are blamed for everything".

Thanks OP.

@hamstersarse

The DSM just like to make shit up.

It means every psychologist has to buy a new book at $400 a pop, and the insurance companies (US) have something to label people and provide a pill for.

Most personality disorder psychology from the DSM is utter shite, not just this 'condition', please don't be shamed by it. A lot of psychologists do not adhere to such terms and will take the time to understand the root trauma.

To be fair, my psychologist was very good. He did not follow the stigma that goes with EUPD. My psychologist was also good and was able to explain how my EUPD developed. I was also lucky to have 2 years at a EUPD inpatient ward where I completed 2 cycles of DBT and I also did CBT. I am now on the waiting list for Trauma therapy in the community. This has helped a lot. There were however some staff that believed in all the stigma and they caused a lot of damage.

@BlueistheNewme

YANBU I think it’s lazy diagnosis, and a reason for mental health poor care.

I think it can be, it depends on the psychiatrist. I was lucky mine was good and I was given Gold standard treatment.

@FlibbertyGiblets

I am sorry you felt you were met with unkindness previously.

I didn't know that EUPD/BPD is curable, that is really good news.

Thank you

EUPD/BPD can be treated with therapy (DBT). Therapy is viewed as successful if the client no longer meets the criteria there-afterwards. Using the term remission when therapy is successful would then be appropriate.

The diagnosis has nothing to do with being manipulative or a ‘bad’ person. It has been stigmatised in the past but slowly the light is being shone on what it means for the individual - individuals who are in need of help and support.

Condemnation and generalisations brought about by ignorance is stigmatising.

♥️

I was first sent to a psychiatrist at 7 years old.

When I was 27 I was diagnosed with BPD. But it didn’t really make sense to me, I’d never felt attention-seeking/manipulative - and just always felt I reacted badly t people straight up lying to my face.

At 47 (thanks to reading on this site about misdiagnosis) I was diagnosed autistic.

Which makes a whole load more fucking sense - and why I couldn’t play office politics for shit.

Fwiw, one of my best friends is a psychiatrist and I’ve known her since I was 10. When I told her she pulled a face and said “BPD no way, autism yeh, I see that”.

I think in manh cases Complex post traumatic stress disorder is a more appropriate label for the difficulties and reflects the reality that most people with BPD are unwell as a result of things done to them.

I agree. And it attempts to minimize or explain away the genuine distress the person may be experiencing