To think women are often oppressed through the label of Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (also known as BPD)

[UndertheCedartree]

I made a post recently asking a question which was answered by many posters and the thread gave me the help I needed. However, many posters cited that no one could help me and even did Advanced searches and from that claimed I couldn't be helped because of my mental illness. It was said noone could understand my post if they didn't know this although it was irrelevant to my question and this was proved by all those who helped without knowing that. This is not a TAAT - it is about the general ableism shown to those with EUPD who are mainly women.

The name of the mental illness itself causes people to think there is a problem with our moral character or our personality but that is not the case. EUPD is an illness of mood and how one interacts with others.

Women with EUPD are often described as manipulative. However, this is not one of the symptoms of EUPD. Sometimes a woman described as manipulative is simply trying to seek the attention they require.

Women with EUPD are often described as abusive. However, the truth is most women with EUPD have suffered trauma often as a result of all types of abuse. Of course anyone can be abusive but it is not a symptom of EUPD. Most of us are more at risk of being abused ourselves.

Women with EUPD are often called 'drama queens'. It is often this invalidating environment in childhood along with trauma and differences in the brain which leads to EUPD.

People think it can't be cured. It can, although most aren't cured but some learn to live with the illness. The Gold standard treatment is DBT. Most women are not able to access this.

@Porcupineintherough

I must admit that I have found people with EUPD can be extremely difficult to deal with and - when trying to get their needs met- take no prisoners. So manipulation, outbursts, abuse - whatever it takes to get the engagement they need. Yes they are often the most damaged by their own behaviour but there can be plenty of collateral damage all round.

Maybe I've only met people with uncontrolled /untreated EUPD (and of course, if the condition is under control then you wouldnt even necessarily know that the person had it, skewing your perception of the condition). But I dont buy the disconnect between the condition and the challenging behaviour that you seem to be suggesting. Ime the behaviour was implicitly linked to the condition because it was all around fear of rejection.

About 1 in 100 people have EUPD so I would suggest if you only know a few it isn't really representative. However, EUPD is described as the emotional equivalent of 3rd degree burns. Perhaps if you were in that much pain you may act like that too? Were these people in treatment? Had they had DBT? But the point is of course some people are abusive, some people are manipulative - people with and without EUPD. But being abusive or manipulative is not part of the diagnostic criteria.

@SilverDragonfly1 - but the point is there is treatment and people with EUPD can be 'cured' or get to a point where they can manage their symptoms. The role of trauma should absolutely be studied more, though and I think there is a lot of misdiagnosis. But at my inpatient unit trauma therapy was part of what was offered/suggested for a patient.

@rogueone

Woman also tend to be labelled EUPD when they are in fact Autistic. Because they dont exhibit the same behaviours as autistic men /boys and autistic females exhibit similar behaviours to those with EUPD they get labelled then dismissed.

Yes, I can believe there is misdiagnosis. I actually have both. DBT would be really useful for those with ASD too, though. There should be some joined up thinking.

@PaleGreenGhost

I second psychologist Jessica Taylor. She's on Facebook too, really taking apart what these labels mean and how they stigmatise very natural understandable reactions to trauma.

Also the book Cracked by James Davies if you're interested in the history of the DSM and all the different mental health diagnoses. Quite alarming how arbitrary much of it is when you realise the impact & influence it holds.

Thank you for that I'll have a look at that book.

@Sunset999

This is of huge interest to me, btw I never called this person a drama queen but I am ashamed to say I thought it,, and thought it was all attention seeking and made up.

So is it curable?

It can be treated and people can come to a point of being able to deal with their struggles well enough that they wouldn't be given the diagnosis at that time. So in that understanding yes, it can be cured. Some people may find they still struggle from time to time but with proper therapy (DBT is the gold standard, Trauma therapy is often needed too) and some medication to help with symptoms someone can 'live a life worth living'.

@XenoBitch - I'm interested to see you've done DBT. Did you do it as an inpatient?

[quote ChateauMargaux]@coffeeisthebest... she lives in Ireland and even after she has been sectioned and when she came out, her team have suggested therapy and ‘other things we can look into’, she has been offered NOTHING! It’s back to medication and when she is ‘stable’ ie totally suppressed.. there is no impetus to change. It’s hard as I don’t live there.. but even when I have tried to offer options.. EMDR and other therapies.. she does not really engage.[/quote]
Has she done DBT?

@Stroopwaffle5000

I was almost diagnosed with BPD, then Bipolar, but it turns out I have ADHD. I took part in a DBT trial and I personally the skills learnt would be really helpful for everyone, BPD or not.

I'm always interested when I hear people have done DBT as I did it as an inpatient and it was enormously helpful. There is a DBT programme in the community but in comparison it is awful. Was your therapy inpatient?

@IJoinedJustForThisThread - I have EUPD and also autism. So it is possible to have both. Has your EUPD diagnosis helped you? Have you been able to access support/therapy?

This was how my psychiatrist explained it to me - the point of getting a diagnosis is so that diagnosis can be used to access suitable support.

I was so grateful to be diagnosed with bpd as I was actually able to access STEPPS (therapy course which is standard treatment) and also there was less reliance on meds. I still keep in touch with 2 of the women who were in the group with me. I am not cured by I mostly manage pretty well.
I hated that they renamed it eupd though, I refer to it as emotional intensity disorder instead, labelling someone unstable is so damaging to self esteem and fighting stigma.
Now that I work in my I have met men with this diagnosis, though it is mainly women. When I realised I had ptsd symptoms I asked the psychiatrist about it. She agreed I had ptsd but said I hadn't been diagnosed as it "was a given" with my eipd and history of trauma and abuse. She also informed me that the only treatment that I could access was the same cbt I have done and now teach about. I would benefit from counselling but no funding for it through my team and the NHS counselling available (head on, health in mind etc) won't touch you if you have a pd because we are so "difficult" and have "attachment issues"
I don't know if it oppresses women though...it can be so helpful to know you're not just crazy but treatment is so limited and not easily accessed, especially if you are managing but have a wobble

YANBU DBT needs to be offered more widely, more research done and more trauma informed care . But there needs to be more support for staff , the PD specialist unit I am sometimes put on is the most difficult ward I've ever worked on. I actually told my employer if they permanently put me on there I would quit . The risk management , expectations and constant incidents many staff burn out and I think that's where the stigma comes from. I have a huge amount of empathy as trauma is awful but after the 30th incident of a shift many peoples empathy starts to wear down mine included. This doesn't happen on the other wards by the way.

@Konstantine8364

I don't know how true this is statistically, but one of my best friends has BPD and one of her psychiatrists told her the reason more women are diagnosed is a lot of men with the condition end up in prison/drug addicts/homeless by living with it untreated, at this point they are unlikely to be diagnosed. Women tend to try and struggle on (often as they have caring responsibilities) and so have more chance of being diagnosed in the community, or after self harming/having a breakdown.

Like a previous poster my friends mental health has improved since diagnosis as she felt (and friends/family agree) that she fits almost all the criteria and now has a reason for the way she feels. Accessing DBT is helpful, but it's definitely learning to live with it rather than something that could cure someone.

The way she described the condition is that all emotions feel magnified and physically painful. So for example if someone cancels on her for a night out, she has extreme reactions of sadness, anger, feeling abandoned and depressed. She has attempted suicide as she didn't want to live with all the emotional pain. I might be wrong but this doesn't sound similar to how living with autism for women is described at all.

I think there is quite likely something in that. How has your friend been able to access DBT? As I feel the quality of it can vary.

There is a lot of crossover with EUPD and Autism. To give one example - black and white thinking describes how one can view a situation/person as all one thing. So my boyfriend upsets me so now I view him as completely horrible with no good points atall. Rather than the more 'grey' thinking which would say - actually most people are a mix of things and someone can do something upsetting but they can still be a generally nice person. This can occur in EUPD and ASD.

@SapphireEyes88

I was so grateful to be diagnosed with bpd as I was actually able to access STEPPS (therapy course which is standard treatment) and also there was less reliance on meds. I still keep in touch with 2 of the women who were in the group with me. I am not cured by I mostly manage pretty well. I hated that they renamed it eupd though, I refer to it as emotional intensity disorder instead, labelling someone unstable is so damaging to self esteem and fighting stigma. Now that I work in my I have met men with this diagnosis, though it is mainly women. When I realised I had ptsd symptoms I asked the psychiatrist about it. She agreed I had ptsd but said I hadn't been diagnosed as it "was a given" with my eipd and history of trauma and abuse. She also informed me that the only treatment that I could access was the same cbt I have done and now teach about. I would benefit from counselling but no funding for it through my team and the NHS counselling available (head on, health in mind etc) won't touch you if you have a pd because we are so "difficult" and have "attachment issues" I don't know if it oppresses women though...it can be so helpful to know you're not just crazy but treatment is so limited and not easily accessed, especially if you are managing but have a wobble

What is Stepps? Does it include DBT? Personally I much prefer EUPD. Borderline meaning on the borderline between neurosis and psychosis is really not correct. I really don't like the 'personality disorder' bit, though as it is nothing to do with our personalities. For me I suppose 'emotionally unstable' describes how I felt when I couldn't emotionally regulate. But yes, perhaps the whole name needs an overhaul.

Am I right in understanding you are not being offered trauma therapy because of your diagnosis?? That's awful. People with EUPD are offered trauma or Schema therapy here after completing DBT.

@Veeveeoxox

YANBU DBT needs to be offered more widely, more research done and more trauma informed care . But there needs to be more support for staff , the PD specialist unit I am sometimes put on is the most difficult ward I've ever worked on. I actually told my employer if they permanently put me on there I would quit . The risk management , expectations and constant incidents many staff burn out and I think that's where the stigma comes from. I have a huge amount of empathy as trauma is awful but after the 30th incident of a shift many peoples empathy starts to wear down mine included. This doesn't happen on the other wards by the way.

How much training to you get on EUPD? Do you really know how to deal with people with that diagnosis? Because unfortunately I think what happens a lot is if untrained people go onto a PD unit not knowing what they are doing they will just trigger people causing all the incidences. I saw this on the PD unit I was on.

I've never wanted to work on there it's not my specialism but because of lack of staffing you get moved, it happens everywhere so you try to make the best of it. I have a history of trauma my own mother is diagnosed with EUPD hence I find it very triggering. I have had some training but not enough , even the permanent staff are very burnt out and negative. When we get an alarm siren for more support 9/10 it comes from the PD ward . I say there should be more training for staff, more money for staff, and more resources.

@Veeveeoxox

I've never wanted to work on there it's not my specialism but because of lack of staffing you get moved, it happens everywhere so you try to make the best of it. I have a history of trauma my own mother is diagnosed with EUPD hence I find it very triggering. I have had some training but not enough , even the permanent staff are very burnt out and negative. When we get an alarm siren for more support 9/10 it comes from the PD ward . I say there should be more training for staff, more money for staff, and more resources.

Yes, I understand. It is really unfair on the staff. And with your background you really shouldn't be working there! But it is my opinion and of most of my EUPD friends from the ward that if you are not properly trained in EUPD you should not be allowed to work on an EUPD ward. Because as you know things can escalate very quickly! The trouble is once one person is triggered it can be like dominos! If we had certain support workers on shift we would know we would be fine as they had training and knew how to deal with someone who was struggling. Then you had others that would trigger someone in the first 5 min of their shift and on it would go. All shift being disturbed by the alarm, having to deal with incidences as the staff were dealing with another one! It is as you describe a massive disaster! And not fair on staff or patients - and really bloody dangerous!

I have finally managed to leave an extremely abusive relationship.Partner was diagnosed with BPD.I am mentally and physically a wreck and I am fortunate to receive professional support .

@Thatldo

I have finally managed to leave an extremely abusive relationship.Partner was diagnosed with BPD.I am mentally and physically a wreck and I am fortunate to receive professional support .

I'm so sorry to hear that. It is good that you have professional support. I wish you well with your recovery and well done for leaving!

@Thatldo

I have finally managed to leave an extremely abusive relationship.Partner was diagnosed with BPD.I am mentally and physically a wreck and I am fortunate to receive professional support .

I was just about to post almost exactly the same thing. It took me a long time to extract myself from an extremely abusive relationship. My abuser has BPD. I broke free over a year ago and I’m still dealing with the mental, emotional, and social consequences. At this stage I don’t think I’ll ever be the same again. It affects me every day.

I am a CPN. There is a growing motion to rename EUPD as complex trauma in the trust I work for - but also some others.

I have C-PTSD and I think that I can recognise traits in myself that may be labelled as EUPD if I didn’t have the C-PTSD diagnosis.

@GiveYourHeadAWobble. I am so sorry you also had to experience this.I know,it will take a long time for me to ever trust another person.wishing you all the best

@GiveYourHeadAWobble - I'm so sorry to hear this. I was in an abusive relationship, so I hear you. Good luck ,

@lemonsorbetinthesun

I am a CPN. There is a growing motion to rename EUPD as complex trauma in the trust I work for - but also some others.

I have C-PTSD and I think that I can recognise traits in myself that may be labelled as EUPD if I didn’t have the C-PTSD diagnosis.

That's interesting, thank you. Trauma really does seem to be at the heart of EUPD - it does make sense.

@Thatldo @UndertheCedartree Thank you. It’s been very difficult. Wishing you all the best too

I've only known two women with BPD, both dating men I've known, and both were very distrustful. My one mate is the most chilled out gentle guy you could imagine, total big cuddly bear, and he had to call her from work every day and then also in the evening if he was meeting a mate for a drink. Of course it may have just been the individual personalities of the two I met but they defo seemed to share a lot of traits.